@Kyeh Sorry, wrong house. What, you’ve never had both hands full of groceries or a bulky IRK box? Besides, cold isn’t a problem where I am though ants sometimes are. A chocolate flavored reader might just take care of 2 problem at once.
@xobzoo Where do all you people get your liquid nitrogen?
Even when I had easy access to it, it was a bit difficult to transport any distance from the dewar.
Dixie Cups are NOT the answer. So I’ve heard.
@pakopako@xobzoo You need quite a few air holes drilled through the top of your Thermos…
If you don’t put pressure relief holes in the Thermos, you COULD just screw the lid on TIGHT, tape it very securely to the door, right by the lock and just wait.
The coolest way I’ve seen is a code entered on a touchscreen where the position of each number and the numbers in the circles are randomized each time you try to unlock it. This solves the problem of someone watching you enter your code and the problem with a mechanical keypad showing wear on the buttons most frequently pressed. Here’s an example from Lockly:
I’m not a big fan of biometrics at all because of the possibility of false positives.
@ItalianScallion I have ones with a regular numeric touchpad. I’m not too worried about it, but apparently by just visually looking at wear on the keypad or now using a camera and AI interpretation, you can tell the numbers used (but not the order).
@ItalianScallion If your door has a six-pin lock and there are six possible pin heights, that’s only 46656 possible combinations.
With the fancy touch-screen lock you show, there are only 10000 possible combinations.
Depending on the biometric, you can do a lot better than that. Iris is really good. I prefer access controls that don’t require power, though.
@Limewater I’m really curious how you came up with 10000 possible combinations for the lock I pictured. I was trying to figure that out myself, but it got so complicated that I gave up. I couldn’t make mathematical sense of four circles/buttons, three random numbers in each circle none of which could be the same number, all ten numbers had to appear once, and two numbers that had to a second time in each of exactly two different circles. Am I making this more complicated than it really is?
@ItalianScallion Since the number grouping are, presumably, randomly-placed, I didn’t worry about trying to work out permutations of grouping.
I just assumed you’d get a 4-digit code with 10 possible digits for each position, giving 10^4, or 10000.
Really, since there are only four buttons in the picture, there would only be 4^4, or 256 different possible four-position combinations, though the correct one would change.
So really, yeah, I was being sloppy and careless.
@Limewater The thing that really threw me was that it is essentially a 12-digit, rather than a 10-digit, keypad where there are the usual 0 to 9 “buttons” and then two additional buttons with a random 0 to 9 digit on them. That could give you the option of choosing between two different buttons for one or two of the digits in your code. The code a friend used on her lock like this was six digits, by the way. I don’t know if there’s a minimum and maximum number of digits for the code or if it must be six.
@ItalianScallion Having the option of selecting between two different circles for possible parts of the combination lowers the number of possibilities.
Ignoring this, you have 4096 different possible combinations.
With the repeated digits, for each digit of your combination, you have a 20% chance of having two options for the correct button press. So you wind up with:
1/(((0.8 x 0.25) + (0.2 x 0.5))^6), or about a 1/1371 chance that random presses will give the correct code.
@G1 There will always be at least one circle with a 1 (or any other digit from 0 to 9) in it. If two circles had a 1 in them, you could touch either of the two circles to get a 1 digit.
If you’re asking in general how the three-digits-in-a-circle thing works, presumably the software in the lock compares every possibility with every digit in each circle you touch and if any of the possibilities match your code, it unlocks. I could work out an example of this if it would make it more clear.
@G1@narfcake “12345? I was thinking of making that the nuclear launch code, but I thought it was too complicated to remember, so I set it to 00000000.” - some general with the authority to set said code
And yes, that actually was the nuclear launch code for twenty years. See here.
or about a 1/1371 chance that random presses will give the correct code.
How long will it take to try codes in the lock 1371 times (presuming it is the last code in all possible combinations that you try)? Long enough to get in and be gone before the police come after the ring camera alerts the owner of whatever the lock is protecting? Oh wait. In this town you’d have plenty of time before the police came as often they don’t answer 911 (yes that is for real).
@ItalianScallion@pmarin When I use the keypad for my garage, as it’s opening, I start to press all of the buttons randomly (but not the “enter” or “OK” button).
How long will it take to try codes in the lock 1371 times (presuming it is the last code in all possible combinations that you try)?
If you could enter a code in two seconds, it would take about 45 minutes to go through all 1371 possible combinations. I think that’s optimistic seeing that the location of each number has a good possibility of being different after each try and it would take a fraction of a second or more to find each number. I think 45 minutes is too long to risk being caught messing around with a door lock.
@ItalianScallion@Kidsandliz The other thing is, if the arrangement changes every time, you can’t really brute for it. You aren’t trying all 1371 combinations. You’re probably trying the same combination over and over again, with your chances of success gradually approaching 1.
@jitc@kuoh when I’m in my simplest life I go keyless and fobless. except for the technology I depend on. house is keypad locks or with app, and car keys are in app. I find it strange to leave house without keys at all. I wouldn’t even need a wallet but I’m not sure we have the digital driver’s license yet.
Plus if you lose your phone or the battery dies you are completely S.O.L.
@mehmef@yakkoTDI so that presumes you take the key with you. If you need to do that then I’d think it would be easier just to skip the enter the code step and use the key.
@Kidsandliz@mehmef@yakkoTDI Or hidden in a fake rock in the yard. I don’t know about this one, but some also have a USB port for emergency backup power.
@ItalianScallion@Kidsandliz@mehmef@yakkoTDI No, but I do often have or can get a hold of one relatively easily, plus most phones now have power sharing capabilities, so dead batteries wouldn’t be the primary reason I might be locked out. Nowadays, the only keys I actually do need to have are either for work or the mailbox.
@ItalianScallion@Kidsandliz@mehmef@yakkoTDI The point of these is not that you also have to have a key or power on you at all times, just accessible in the rare occasion that it fails. To that end, you can either choose to hide the key somewhere nearby or borrow power from someone for those rare occasions, yet still maintain a relative ease of daily access. Alternatively you can keep using a normal key only lock everyday, but possibly have to spend the savings later on a locksmith or a new window when you lose the keys while out. And before someone else brings it up, keeping a lockpicking kit with you can also be a risky legal proposition in some states if you happen to get stopped and are not an actual locksmith.
I switched exclusively to fingerprint + keypad + key locks 3 to 4 years ago and haven’t had any problems with getting in and don’t worry about having more than the car fob, phone and wallet when I go out. A couple of them are also remotely programmable to facilitate temporary guest access even when I’m not home.
GAH anyone see the Leverage: Redemption episode where they alter a guy’s fingerprints, voice, & visage? Well, I’ve got psoriatic arthritis. So sometimes, most times, my fingerprints were unrecognizable for fingerprint needs, as for work badges, & the phone, aaarrrggghhh. Sucks. Then, I’ve also got Sjongren’s & meds which make my eyes sooooooo dry, thus different eyedrops. I figure between different eyedrops & general irritation, my eye prints probably vary too much for recognition. Then, you know how you can get your phone to recognize you? Well, my phone normally doesn’t recognize me. Not sure if it’s the wearing or not wearing glasses, psoriasis or random patches of injury, dependent on the play of light & shadows on my face, or maybe my phone’s facial recognition program is just a really mean critic of my hair or smile (or lack, thereof). Also, I figure, depending on how allergies & sinus yuck & drainage, then coughing, happen to be at any given moment, can definitely alter one’s voice & even lose one’s voice, too. Then, depending on if the phone just got a surprise update that drained it’s battery, well, I’ve hopefully not lost my house key(as I did that time that I’d accidentally locked myself on the back patio), & am probably better off knowing a convoluted alternative way to get back into the home…
@chienfou You would need to draw down Lake Superior to match the lower lakes, and then dig a mondo-large canal where the Soo Locks are now. This is not regarded as a good idea. Therefore, you need a lock (or four) between Superior and the rest.
Alternately, build lots of railroads to haul what’s on those Lakers, and you could unlock Soo and just let the rapids carry all the runoff. (This might be a good idea, or it might not.)
A fly swatter
Woohoo - the poll thread is back!
Why has nobody developed a tongue print lock yet?
KuoH
@kuoh
It’s coming! Ha ha
@kuoh Because winter is cold?
@ItalianScallion @kuoh They couldn’t lick some of the engineering problems. Plus, being the next person(s) to lick the sensor would be in poor taste.
@kuoh
@Kyeh Sorry, wrong house. What, you’ve never had both hands full of groceries or a bulky IRK box? Besides, cold isn’t a problem where I am though ants sometimes are. A chocolate flavored reader might just take care of 2 problem at once.
KuoH
@ItalianScallion @kuoh @mehcuda67
One of many variations on the list
Alohomora
@forebrain Is that some sort of Hawaiian insult?
KuoH
@forebrain @kuoh No I think it’s a pokemon.
@forebrain @kuoh @sammydog01
It’s a spell used to open doors and pick locks, it’s from Harry Potter.
@forebrain Mellon
@aetris Nice reference friend.
@yakkoTDI Aw shucks. And now let’s go…
The Fonz
Liquid Nitrogen poured onto the lock and a hammer.
Breathalyzer
@Kyeh Is there something you have been hiding from us?
@yakkoTDI Many things, but not what you’re thinking!
@Kyeh @yakkoTDI There’s a court order requiring proof that you’re not a vampire before getting behind the wheel?
KuoH
Happy poll-topics-are-back day!
@dave Thank you!
A hammer, bat, brick, &c.
Kicking it in.
Actually, the coolest would be dousing it in liquid nitrogen until it’s extremely brittle, then tap it and it shatters.
(based on “cooler = colder”)
Oh, looking back over this page, I see that I wasn’t the first to say “nitrogen”… I guess I hadn’t refreshed my page recently enough when I started.
@xobzoo It’s cool.
@xobzoo Where do all you people get your liquid nitrogen?
Even when I had easy access to it, it was a bit difficult to transport any distance from the dewar.
Dixie Cups are NOT the answer. So I’ve heard.
@G1 @xobzoo insulated Thermos
@pakopako @xobzoo You need quite a few air holes drilled through the top of your Thermos…
If you don’t put pressure relief holes in the Thermos, you COULD just screw the lid on TIGHT, tape it very securely to the door, right by the lock and just wait.
From far away. Behind a wall.
Lockpicks.
Shotgun
The coolest way I’ve seen is a code entered on a touchscreen where the position of each number and the numbers in the circles are randomized each time you try to unlock it. This solves the problem of someone watching you enter your code and the problem with a mechanical keypad showing wear on the buttons most frequently pressed. Here’s an example from Lockly:
I’m not a big fan of biometrics at all because of the possibility of false positives.
@ItalianScallion there’s a Panera near my house that has that on their bathroom doors.
@ItalianScallion Had that exact same lock on a beach condo once. It was cool. Also seemed to hold up to the salt air quite well.
@ItalianScallion I have ones with a regular numeric touchpad. I’m not too worried about it, but apparently by just visually looking at wear on the keypad or now using a camera and AI interpretation, you can tell the numbers used (but not the order).
@ItalianScallion If your door has a six-pin lock and there are six possible pin heights, that’s only 46656 possible combinations.
With the fancy touch-screen lock you show, there are only 10000 possible combinations.
Depending on the biometric, you can do a lot better than that. Iris is really good. I prefer access controls that don’t require power, though.
@Limewater I’m really curious how you came up with 10000 possible combinations for the lock I pictured. I was trying to figure that out myself, but it got so complicated that I gave up. I couldn’t make mathematical sense of four circles/buttons, three random numbers in each circle none of which could be the same number, all ten numbers had to appear once, and two numbers that had to a second time in each of exactly two different circles. Am I making this more complicated than it really is?
@ItalianScallion Since the number grouping are, presumably, randomly-placed, I didn’t worry about trying to work out permutations of grouping.
I just assumed you’d get a 4-digit code with 10 possible digits for each position, giving 10^4, or 10000.
Really, since there are only four buttons in the picture, there would only be 4^4, or 256 different possible four-position combinations, though the correct one would change.
So really, yeah, I was being sloppy and careless.
@Limewater The thing that really threw me was that it is essentially a 12-digit, rather than a 10-digit, keypad where there are the usual 0 to 9 “buttons” and then two additional buttons with a random 0 to 9 digit on them. That could give you the option of choosing between two different buttons for one or two of the digits in your code. The code a friend used on her lock like this was six digits, by the way. I don’t know if there’s a minimum and maximum number of digits for the code or if it must be six.
@ItalianScallion Having the option of selecting between two different circles for possible parts of the combination lowers the number of possibilities.
Ignoring this, you have 4096 different possible combinations.
With the repeated digits, for each digit of your combination, you have a 20% chance of having two options for the correct button press. So you wind up with:
1/(((0.8 x 0.25) + (0.2 x 0.5))^6), or about a 1/1371 chance that random presses will give the correct code.
@ItalianScallion But my code is 1111.
How is THAT going to work?
:Iareidiot:
@G1 There will always be at least one circle with a 1 (or any other digit from 0 to 9) in it. If two circles had a 1 in them, you could touch either of the two circles to get a 1 digit.
If you’re asking in general how the three-digits-in-a-circle thing works, presumably the software in the lock compares every possibility with every digit in each circle you touch and if any of the possibilities match your code, it unlocks. I could work out an example of this if it would make it more clear.
@G1 @ItalianScallion
@G1 @narfcake “12345? I was thinking of making that the nuclear launch code, but I thought it was too complicated to remember, so I set it to 00000000.” - some general with the authority to set said code
And yes, that actually was the nuclear launch code for twenty years. See here.
@ItalianScallion Pretty much just joking/being stupid, but I truly thank you for explaining. No sarcasm… this time.
@G1 Yeah, I realized that after I read it a second time.
And you’re welcome!
@ItalianScallion @Limewater
How long will it take to try codes in the lock 1371 times (presuming it is the last code in all possible combinations that you try)? Long enough to get in and be gone before the police come after the ring camera alerts the owner of whatever the lock is protecting? Oh wait. In this town you’d have plenty of time before the police came as often they don’t answer 911 (yes that is for real).
@ItalianScallion @pmarin When I use the keypad for my garage, as it’s opening, I start to press all of the buttons randomly (but not the “enter” or “OK” button).
@Kidsandliz @Limewater
If you could enter a code in two seconds, it would take about 45 minutes to go through all 1371 possible combinations. I think that’s optimistic seeing that the location of each number has a good possibility of being different after each try and it would take a fraction of a second or more to find each number. I think 45 minutes is too long to risk being caught messing around with a door lock.
@ItalianScallion @Kidsandliz The other thing is, if the arrangement changes every time, you can’t really brute for it. You aren’t trying all 1371 combinations. You’re probably trying the same combination over and over again, with your chances of success gradually approaching 1.
Shim.
When I’m going out, I just turn the knob.
@2many2no Perv.
Just say “This is the lock picking lawyer” and the lock will cower in fear and release itself.
Also even one of my cat plushies can pick:
@narfcake So the LPL is the Chuck Norris of locks?
Mental telepathy!
Have someone open it from the inside.
Don’t open the lock, teleport inside.
Go in the other door.
I like a fob. Something that can stay in my pocket/purse and lets me open the door without friction.
@jitc Just ask J.A.R.V.I.S.
KuoH
@jitc @kuoh when I’m in my simplest life I go keyless and fobless. except for the technology I depend on. house is keypad locks or with app, and car keys are in app. I find it strange to leave house without keys at all. I wouldn’t even need a wallet but I’m not sure we have the digital driver’s license yet.
Plus if you lose your phone or the battery dies you are completely S.O.L.
How do you unlock one of these if the battery fails?
@mehmef Use the key that comes with it.
@mehmef @yakkoTDI so that presumes you take the key with you. If you need to do that then I’d think it would be easier just to skip the enter the code step and use the key.
@Kidsandliz @mehmef @yakkoTDI Or hidden in a fake rock in the yard. I don’t know about this one, but some also have a USB port for emergency backup power.
KuoH
@Kidsandliz @kuoh @mehmef @yakkoTDI So instead of carrying a key, you carry a power bank you bought on Sidedeal?
@ItalianScallion @Kidsandliz @mehmef @yakkoTDI No, but I do often have or can get a hold of one relatively easily, plus most phones now have power sharing capabilities, so dead batteries wouldn’t be the primary reason I might be locked out. Nowadays, the only keys I actually do need to have are either for work or the mailbox.
KuoH
@yakkoTDI I thought the point of having this is to not need the key.
@ItalianScallion @Kidsandliz @kuoh @yakkoTDI My iPhone doesn’t have power sharing so that wouldn’t work.
@ItalianScallion @Kidsandliz @mehmef @yakkoTDI The point of these is not that you also have to have a key or power on you at all times, just accessible in the rare occasion that it fails. To that end, you can either choose to hide the key somewhere nearby or borrow power from someone for those rare occasions, yet still maintain a relative ease of daily access. Alternatively you can keep using a normal key only lock everyday, but possibly have to spend the savings later on a locksmith or a new window when you lose the keys while out. And before someone else brings it up, keeping a lockpicking kit with you can also be a risky legal proposition in some states if you happen to get stopped and are not an actual locksmith.
I switched exclusively to fingerprint + keypad + key locks 3 to 4 years ago and haven’t had any problems with getting in and don’t worry about having more than the car fob, phone and wallet when I go out. A couple of them are also remotely programmable to facilitate temporary guest access even when I’m not home.
KuoH
C4 shaped charge
Laser vision
/giphy laser vision
Wiggle your nose
/image Samantha nose wiggle
GAH
anyone see the Leverage: Redemption episode where they alter a guy’s fingerprints, voice, & visage? Well, I’ve got psoriatic arthritis. So sometimes, most times, my fingerprints were unrecognizable for fingerprint needs, as for work badges, & the phone, aaarrrggghhh. Sucks. Then, I’ve also got Sjongren’s & meds which make my eyes sooooooo dry, thus different eyedrops. I figure between different eyedrops & general irritation, my eye prints probably vary too much for recognition. Then, you know how you can get your phone to recognize you? Well, my phone normally doesn’t recognize me. Not sure if it’s the wearing or not wearing glasses, psoriasis or random patches of injury, dependent on the play of light & shadows on my face, or maybe my phone’s facial recognition program is just a really mean critic of my hair or smile (or lack, thereof). Also, I figure, depending on how allergies & sinus yuck & drainage, then coughing, happen to be at any given moment, can definitely alter one’s voice & even lose one’s voice, too. Then, depending on if the phone just got a surprise update that drained it’s battery, well, I’ve hopefully not lost my house key
(as I did that time that I’d accidentally locked myself on the back patio), & am probably better off knowing a convoluted alternative way to get back into the home…
@gnoogie I don’t know if this is too convoluted, but here’s my alternative way to get back in should all other technological avenues fail.
KuoH
@gnoogie How can we even be sure that this is the real @gnoogie posting here??
@gnoogie @kuoh
https://www.naturalhabitatshorts.com/shorts?pgid=ku471zfv-1378ee82-7698-4e5c-8fec-dde79073d029
Lock?
@chienfou You want to float something large from Duluth to Detroit, you’re gonna go through a lock.
@werehatrack
Not exactly sure how you would unlock such an item…
@chienfou You would need to draw down Lake Superior to match the lower lakes, and then dig a mondo-large canal where the Soo Locks are now. This is not regarded as a good idea. Therefore, you need a lock (or four) between Superior and the rest.
Alternately, build lots of railroads to haul what’s on those Lakers, and you could unlock Soo and just let the rapids carry all the runoff. (This might be a good idea, or it might not.)
@chienfou @werehatrack Well there is a “not a lock” …