Computer a 3rd-grader can grow with?
4Home schooling is in place for the foreseeable future.
sigh
Requesting suggestions for cheap, probably refurbed all-in-one desktop (preferred) or larger laptop that can grow with my granddaughter. iMac would be awesome, but PC is probably the more affordable answer.
Anyone know of reliable sources, or would it be better to wait for Prime day?
TIA for any help.
- 17 comments, 54 replies
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VAN MURALS! GROUND SQUIRRELS! SPIT CURLS! AWESOME!
Realistically if you buy a refurb you can expect it to be usable for her for 4-5 yrs. After that the tech specs will be getting at the low end of useful, as she is getting into more advanced uses (think video processing etc.)
Prices for refurbs can vary widely, but woot! has a dedicated computer tab that has some pretty good deals now and then.
Personally I would stay away from an all-in-one since it is more difficult to upgrade if you decide to go that route.
FWIW we homeschooled our kids during the time when home computers were becoming a practicality. I bought the first one, upgraded it and then started building my own for the kids as they out grew them. Now it is not cost effective to do that as much. I still buy them and change out the HDD for a solid state drive etc. but basically I can’t buy the parts and software for the price of a new already assembled computer. Of course if you are a gamer that’s a different story…
@chienfou - Thanks! We’re probably not savvy enough to do upgrades.
Not for gaming, but she has expressed interest in coding. Reason for all-in-one is lack of space, maybe shouldn’t be the most important factor?
@kdemo if lack of space is an issue I would lean to a laptop. Not my first choice, but chromebooks can be pretty cheap and might be a good start.
I would suggest you use an OS that YOU are familiar with to start, so if you are an Apple fan, get a Mac. If you are a window’s person, use that. This will allow you to be more hands on for the initial learning period if she needs help.
@chienfou - I’m Windows, my son is Apple, but turns out those aren’t low budget. He says she needs more than a Chromebook, not good for coding, so I guess it’s narrowed to PC.
@dashcloud? Hmm… @djslack? @narfcake?
Would you be out of your mind to ask @ruouttaurmind?
@Barney - Thanks! Great list. Dashcloud has offered some helpful ideas. Also, I am now certain that iMacs are out of range.
If it’s remote schooling with classes over zoom and such, you may find that going with the minimum required by the schools may get you through a couple of years with a small chromebook for a lot cheaper. Buying tech ahead of what you need can be a bad deal, since prices will be lower on more capable equipment in a short time.
Right now is kind of a hard time to find a good deal anyway, since everyone is doing the same thing, stores that hardly ever sold computers are sold out within days of new stock coming in, and it’s weeks before more stock arrives.
@kevinrs - Eeesh. I hadn’t thought of that, but makes sense. Bad news.
I would go with a laptop for this use case and what work stuck me with was usable for almost a decade although sometimes frustrating and I bought some memory. And I’ve always worked from home so Skype etc is nothing new.
What is your budget range? Usually you’re going to want a windows 10 laptop… Despite chromebooks being super cheep and the apple crowd being over priced. There are reasons to go with each.
But realistically if you are not familiar with fixing/modifying computers and the kid just needs it to work. You kind of need to be on the OS the schools tech department is using so they can do their school work and they can help if needed
And the teacher is on the same page/browser etc
@unksol - Right. We’d like to keep it under $500, even that is going to be a bit of a stretch. Son says Chromebook won’t cut it, I might talk him into a laptop, but not his first choice.
Starting to sound like a futile proposition.
Thank you.
@kdemo has the school put out any suggested models they will support? If not sub $500 windows 10 laptop is a place to start. Been a while since I’ve looked for one but at least we have a form factor/OS/price to start with.
I don’t think he can build a desktop for under $500… With reasonable specs. I built my first computer over 2 decades ago and it’s fun but… Might not be feasible with that budget
@kdemo @unksol
a quick look at officedepot.com shows (refurb) i7 based computers for less than $350. Add a monitor and you can come in under 500 easily.
@kdemo also if he’s into computers like I was he might be reading articles like this https://www.tomshardware.com/best-picks/best-pc-builds-gaming
Which there’s nothing wrong with but their $500 builds are as cheap as you can get and do it yourself. and might be able to upgrade later. I built one and made some upgrades when I got a real job when I was 15 or 16. So if that’s his game plan… might change it a bit.
@kdemo kinda depends on if you want the easiest/no trouble situation. Or if he’s setting up to learn computers/code/tech. First one keep it simple so to you don’t have to deal with it. Second you won’t have to he’ll figure it out if he has the tools
@chienfou @kdemo those i7s look decent if just needing a home computer.
@kdemo @unksol should be good for at least a few years of mid to late elementary school work.
@kdemo @unksol I have a 7th grader, 4th grader and 2nd grader. All are using (full disclosure, school-issued) Chromebooks. The oldest is doing a Robotics class and the middle one is doing tons of Scratch and just starting some web page work. They are adequate for any programming a 3rd grader might do, and probably at least up to high school. They aren’t amazing, and I have to hound my kids to close browser tabs, but I don’t think their crappy reputation is deserved.
@kdemo @mschuette I have nothing against chromebooks. If the school IT guy knows them or you do. So when things go wrong there is support.
My bet for a generic situation is the parent/guardian might not be computer inclined and the School IT guy must at a minimum know windows and it supports the most software. So. I lean that way.
The school could also be going hard on chromebook or apple. But usually when that’s the case they issues a computer and they haven’t so I’m betting windows
Realistically, growing with a computer is either a short term proposition or an expensive one up front, because its realistic life is like 5 years with windows, maybe 7-8 with a Mac. (See my Linux story below, though, for the exception).
So you can get whatever you can get by with for current school requirements and then bump up if she gets into going above and beyond schoolwork, or you can buy something hefty up front in hopes she grows into it.
I’d go refurb and short term, because everything is always marching towards obsolescence. I would strongly avoid the $299 black friday doorbuster type laptop, it’s at the head of that obsolescence line even before the plastic is fully cured on it. A refurb machine a year or two old at the same price point is generally a much more capable machine.
I don’t know what kind of serious coding an elementary schooler is going to get into. A Chromebook will support all the virtual schoolwork and provide access to web based coding activities that are age appropriate for young kids. And they’re portable, kid friendly, cheap, and usually have batteries that last all day. I would take a second look here.
An all in one is essentially a laptop built into a screen, but even more proprietary parts and harder to work on if it needs repair. Unless you find a smoking deal or just really need the form factor, I’d avoid it. (Imac being the exception, all the negatives still apply but it’s your only “reasonable” choice for a mac desktop).
What I’ve been doing recently is taking 6+year old laptops that I’ve been decommissioning at work (usually like core i3/4gb ram 15" solid bricks of machines), wiping the drives and then installing the following:
So free computers loaded with free software. I have then been donating them to parents/grandparents to support kids having to do virtual school, starting with all our employees at work and growing from there as they become available. So far only positive reviews, and these little computers are surprisingly usable on this software when they were hot unusable garbage with Windows anymore. It saves them from the landfill for a while longer anyway. And maybe one of these kids will pick up some solid computer skills along the way, if you get to know your way around Linux in elementary school you will be able to accomplish a lot.
This is the equivalent of the laptop you could get for $50-100 on Craigslist. It’s not as light or battery friendly as the chromebook, but it is tough and it will support some pretty serious coding. The only thing is stepping outside your comfort zone of OSes, but with so many different mobile devices and UIs out there, no one has had a problem yet picking it up and using it. I just explain to the parent up front that this isn’t going to run MS Office or play Fortnite, but it’s great for school. It’s the first distribution I have felt comfortable handing over to anyone and thinking they will be productive out of the box with it, and so far it’s been great. So maybe you’ve got an old laptop laying around that this would work for.
@djslack These are all great tips, and THANK YOU for your generosity to parents and kids in need!
One thing I’ll add is that a refurb’d “Business” computer will stand up to the abuse a kid throws at it much MUCH more so than the Black Friday / Doorbuster / bargain basement laptops will.
They are heavy, but they are built to withstand the abuses of travelling business people.
@djslack elementaryOS installed is pretty straightforward, it’s the downloading an ISO for the right architecture, maybe burning a disc, checking BIOS boot order, partitioning, picking drivers, etc. that always gives me pause on not recommending Linux in these situations. I run another distro, I like Linux, I think many people would be happier with it, they just need a support person at first.
@djslack - Thank you! We don’t have the equipment or knowledge to attempt this, but you are doing great things in a time of such need.
May Karma visit you with like generosity.
@mschuette I get it, and sometimes forget that what I think is easy is out of reach of someone else. But elementary has made it dead simple. There’s no choosing the right iso, there’s just the one and you need x64 to support it. The default for installation is to use the whole hard drive (but you can run it live off usb first). It is likely to frustrate the average distro hopping multi booting geek, but it’s the first one I’ve felt comfortable recommending to a non technical person. But I haven’t recommended actually installing it to a non-technical person before, that is a little more of a hurdle. But I believe anyone who chose to read this thread could do it and feel a sense of accomplishment.
@kdemo thanks. I get that it’s not for everybody. I would love to scale this operation up, surely there are other companies sitting on a stash of old laptops destined for the landfill, that could be mated to geeks who would do the setup and someone to distribute the donations. The hard part may be corporate policies that wouldn’t let the laptops keep their hard drives, some companies with large fleets insist on physical destruction. I only had 12-15 to work with, and I am the policy maker so I can determine that I’m comfortable with a wipe and reinstall.
@djslack - Seems there are lots of IT people in the forum. Hope they read this and consider helping, or at least spreading the info.
You’re right, there must be millions of defunct laptops out there, ripe for upcycling. There’s a list here of some companies that accept donations, wonder what they do with them?
I guess organizing willing geeks would probably be the most challenging part. I’ll think about it more, I think it’s an exciting idea.
You are an all-star.
I personally feel all-in-one is the worse compromise; larger screen, yes, but still little to no expansion without the portability of a laptop. If you need the extra screen space, just pick up a monitor for under $100 and run it along side the laptop.
For coding, skip any that’s still a dual-core; you’re looking at an i5-1035g1 and up or Ryzen 3 4300U and up.
What’s your budget?
@narfcake she says <500 above.
@chienfou @narfcake and I’m not sure if this was just a request for “I need the most practical/cost effective computer that will cause me the least hassle”. Or “my kid knows what he’s doing and doesn’t need help and wants to build one”
Very different things lol
@narfcake @unksol target recipient is 3rd grade (i.e. about 8 yr old) granddaughter. I think a pre-built is more likely what will fit the bill at this stage.
@chienfou @narfcake then we are looking at a windows 10 laptop i think for most portability/ease of uses/school stuff. The i7 desktops are nice options but I would bet keeping her on one computer would make it easier for everyone and her…
@chienfou @unksol Yeah, in no way am I suggesting a DIY here. Can it be done? Yes – but I wouldn’t recommend it and at this price point, options are limited.
With that said @kdemo, keep an eye out for this Acer with an i5-1035g1 that’s been going in and out of stock at $349. Some third party scalpers have it at $499 – skip those. Wait for Walmart to restock to get it.
https://slickdeals.net/f/14388653-acer-aspire-3-15-6-fhd-i5-1035g1-8gb-ddr4-256gb-pcie-ssd-win10h-349-f-s
8 GB of RAM is fine, though the storage is on the lighter side, at least it’s NVMe.
@chienfou @kdemo @narfcake that’s pretty good. If needed faster there are some newegg options but I haven’t gone through them all…
@chienfou @narfcake @unksol - The Acer looks promising, Thank you!
@chienfou @kdemo @narfcake @unksol I might be cautious with that Acer, but my experience is very long ago.
I bought an Acer Aspire around 2006 or 2007. The computer was fine except that the housing was really bad. The case split at the hinges. I returned it for repair under warranty and was without it for a few weeks before it came back and the hinges cracked again soon after.
I also manage to kill my first hard drive by pressing too hard next to the track pad. I hope that they have improved in the past fourteen years, but I would try to check build quality before buying a computer for a young child.
@Limewater IIRC Acer started out as an OEM for other brands. Gateway 2000 I believe was one. Then they started selling under their own brand.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with them as a brand, but they have definitely produced some product lines to such a low price point that quality suffered. I’ve had mid-level Acer notebooks that were just fine, and some of their Chromebooks are top notch. But yes, start getting down in the lower product lines and there can be some flimsy stuff.
@djslack @kdemo Yeah, I didn’t mean to rip on Acer as a brand. I’m just concerned about build quality on their lower-end Aspire line based upon my experience.
I don’t really have a better suggestion, though. I am a fan of refurbished Latitudes or Thinkpads due to rugged build quality and easy serviceability.
It might be worth looking at the Dell Business Outlet. The downside here is that you typically get a heavier laptop, and you aren’t likely to get the all-day battery performance of a Chromebook.
My daughter is in third grade and has a refurbished Thinkpad. It pretty much stays on her desk, though.
@djslack @kdemo @Limewater durability l is a good point… Especially with an 8 year old. I’ve only ever bought one laptop for myself like 14 years ago lol. She does still run. Ive repaired more. I spend a good amount of time looking at the 1/2/3 star reviews checking for potential problems on computer hardware and most things in general.
If you want a larger monitor check Goodwill or other thrift stores. I found a pretty nice 22” HP monitor for $20. Pay attention to the plug types. Luckily I found an HDMI but VGA will work but may require an adapter for newer laptops.
There are some great deals to be found here: http://www.hp.com/sbso/buspurchase_refurbished_computing.html
Most are canceled business orders that were never even shipped. Pretty much all the specs are listed. If you write to them they will send you an Excel spreadsheet of the most recent list usually within a few hours. That allows you to filter, search and sort by the features and price you want. I have bought several from them and have never been disappointed. Also, in general, HP’s enterprise machines are far better and tougher than the consumer grade stuff.
@tweezak - TY. I’m surprised @narfcake didn’t suggest Goodwill lol. Love this HP link, All of a sudden I’m thinking I might need a “new” computer.
@kdemo I didn’t because it’s such a hit-and-miss depending on location. Where I’m at, they don’t even have computers at the local stores. While 20" and smaller monitors could be had for under $20, larger ones are overpriced IMHO; I can’t recommend spending $50 for a used 24" with no warranty versus a brand new one for $90 with a 3 year warranty.
@narfcake - Just joking because you’re the most prolific thrift store shopper I know of.
More nonspecific advice: here is the general order in which you get the most usable machine for your money:
You pay more for smaller/portable. Chromebooks are kind of the exception. You pay less because they are less powerful machines, but they are designed to be that way so they are very usable.
You can always spend more and chase diminishing returns, but that’s usually done in the name of high end gaming as far as PCs, or specialized workstations in PCs and Macs.
Also, I didn’t think about this but there are used Mac mini desktops on the market to be had in your price range, best buy even has some on their site. Pair that with an HDMI monitor and it’s probably the most economical way to get into a Mac. Doesn’t take up much more space than an all in one either. When dealing in used Macs, check the model number against the os release list to make sure you’re not getting one that’s already not getting current updates. They do still work on older versions of Mac os but current support means current protection against security problems as well as a longer usable life.
In PCs skip anything with Atom, Celeron, Pentium, Core 2 or Core Duo, AMD A4/A6, these are either old or low powered based on old tech and not great. Intel Core i3/i5/i7 are better, but you have to watch what generation they are. 11th generation is current, 1st generation is a decade old. Marketing has made it easy to make this confusing. In AMD processors, look for Ryzen 5/7/9 for current stuff.
@djslack - Thank you for this - really helps to clarify options. Also very hopeful that a mac solution may be within range.
I was not aware of any of the processor details - I think Pentium was the gold standard last time I compared computers. Whatever happened to Gateway 2000 with the cow boxes? Haha! Got my first one in '95.
You can see I’m rather clueless, this advice is invaluable.
BTW, what’s your Internet provider situation? Got high speed internet? Cable? DSL? Wifi?
@chienfou - They’re in the SF Bay Area, so no internet problems. I believe there is cable, just not TV.
@kdemoI had a long spiel prepared, and about to post it, but my fancy PC has developed a super sensitive touch screen and keypad and just managed to accidentally close my tab beforehand, with a mere wave of my hand. ( This has been a big problem of late and I had done a Ctl a and Ctl c to keep a running copy, just in case, but got lazy and copied a url to my clipboard… ARGH! I’ll try to repeat, but shorter…)
I was arguing for a ChromeBook to actually be a viable option. I wish I had been using my old CB to type this, but after about 5 years, it is having some hardware issues with the mouse pad, so went to my fancy-shmancy PC laptop.
I don’t think your 3rd grader will be doing “enterprise” coding any time soon, so for a learner, I recommend using a CB and running a web-based IDE for whatever language she will start with. There are plenty available, for Python and html-css-javascript, for examples. Take a look at repl.it (or www.repl.it to be more formal). They claim their IDE will handle over 50 various current languges. (Check REPL on wikipedia, if that is a new term to you.) Program files can be kept “in the cloud” so very little computer resource needed! (You can set up one or more FREE user accounts to do this.)
Advantage: you don’t have to download any compiler and worry about configuring it. Disadvantage: not good for programming graphical interfaces (but each platform is pretty proprietary and not very inter-operative with others, anyway.)
You can buy several successive CBs for what a decent PC or Mac would cost. Also, CBs are fairly impervious to viruses and other hacking (except for phishing and such, but that is a people flaw). Also, their auto-update for the Chrome OS is pretty painless (listening, Micro$oft?). It sure is nice to open the lid and be working in about 10 seconds later, even after powering down! On the downside, I hate dealing with the whole Google ecosystem, so I log in on the “guest” account — but that means you don’t have any lasting storage when you power down – so I put in a $5 USB memory stick and take care of that – just have to be disciplined and remember to save it and manage files myself. Speaking of hacking, a CB can be hacked to run Linux, if you have a budding nerd. (Ubuntu is a popular variant among cheerleaders in the educator set.)
Speaking of graphics, be sure you both look up the Scratch programming language (see Wikipedia…) , if your granddaughter is new to programming concepts.
If she will be a STEMster, have a look at https://www.geogebra.org – it’s free! and also can run in a web tab! I haven’t used it in about 3 or 4 years, but thought it bordered on magic back then.
my 2 cents, before inflation
@phendrick my only issue with CB is the very reason it exists. I am inherently leery of cloud based stuff. Partially due to my age probably, but also because I don’t like the idea that I am dead in the water if the 'net is down, I’m flying someplace, or I live out in the boonies in Alabama where High Speed internet is still a pipe dream…
@phendrick - Oh, man. So frustrating to lose a detailed comment. When my computer was doing that, I got in the Ctrl-C habit (usually).
We’re actually kind of excited about the coding advice - had no clue where to start.
Also Chromebook is back in consideration.
Thank you.
@chienfou Yep, I agree with your misgivings. Love the hardware of the CB, hate the whole idea of the prying eyes from Google, routing everything through them. I only use their cloud for things I might possibly put up on a bulletin board – nothing any more private than that.
That’s why I generally don’t log in through them, and store stuff on my own USB stick (I’m trusting that is safe from their prying eyes.) I actually have several sticks, depending on what I am doing. One is full of textbooks and user manuals in PDF form. If internet goes down, that is a nuisance, not a catastrophe.
I also don’t use Ring, Alexa, any voice commands, etc. And I keep my tin foil hat handy. (I’ve been thinking of improvising a Faraday cage.)
@kdemo You are welcome. I took a closer look at GeoGebra last night, first time in a while. Looks like they’ve messed with the interface, at least on the web version. At first glance, looks like drawing tools are harder to find and to use. Trust me, it is worth the work to figure out though. A super great learning tool for math, IMO. Especially if you animate your constructions (i.e., make them interactive).
Best luck to you and yours.
Also… are you talking home schooling or remote learning from an established school. If the first, I wouldn’t sweat it too much, since there are lots of things you can use for education that are not computer based just as there are a lot of resources for you available on-line if you opt for that route. Judging from the “sigh” I take it you are not a fan of the idea of homeschooling. I would suggest you get involved in a local homeschooling group to get more info and some local support.
@chienfou - Good point, I overlooked the distinction. Remote learning.
@kdemo OK, skip the HS support group then
@chienfou - It is a actually a combination of the two - Zoom session only lasts an hour per day and the rest is up to the parent. Don’t know how much material is actually online, but I know they still have homework.
Refurb Lenovo Yoga, tons of models available. Three of my children have them for school and like that it is a pc, but they can switch to the tablet mode and use tablet apps or take notes in class. Lots of places to purchase and well built.
@chienfou @kevinrs @unksol @mschuette @djslack @TrophyHusband @narfcake @tweezak @phendrick @nasman6 -
This is exactly the info I needed, I knew you guys would come through! Learned a lot and I’m beginning to wonder if I actually could modify a computer.
At the moment, we just want to buy something reliable for her schoolwork and beyond. She has to use Google to log in to school stuff. Son is convinced a Chromebook is not enough, but there are multiple suggestions here to explore.
Thank you SO much!!!
@kdemo you can always upgrade the memory or
storage if you need to. The CPU/GPU and cooling setup are pretty much set by the design. Sometimes they have sockets. But usually not
@kdemo
/giphy you can do it
@djslack @kdemo
Yes, you can. Modifying a desktop is generally easier and has more options than modifying a laptop. It is NOT difficult, and with a little research and some coaching you can do RAM, HDD/SSD, GPU and optical drive swaps with little trouble ( and often for little extra $$) on a desktop.
@chienfou @djslack @kdemo Listen if I can take 2 broken laptops - one wouldn’t turn on and the other had a broken screen and make one working one out of it with no youtube or anything else you can do it with all the tutorials out there. All I did was take both apart, realize swapping out the screen was going to be a real pain so looked at where the power button went. Swapped them out. Reassembled (as I took out a part I laid them out in a line in the order I took the thing apart. Took 8 hours the first time. Didn’t work. Looked to see what that part was attached to and swapped out the next part in the chain. 5 hours. Didn’t work. Did this one more time. 3 hours and it worked. Only two left over screws.
Of course if I had to solder or something that would have been harder. I mean I knew how to solder from making silver jewelry, but hadn’t done it on anything so incredibly tiny as computer solder spots are.
@kdemo @unksol This. Also, before you pull the trigger on a machine be sure to look for reviews. It’s better to know ahead of time that the computer ships with the max memory the motherboard supports already installed meaning there’s no room for a memory upgrade and other useful nuggets. Alternatively you may have decided on a machine that ships with 16g in four 4gb sticks but that the motherboard will support up to 32gb. Crucial.com used to be my goto memory source but they have seemed more expensive recently. Anyway, learning computer building and upgrading with your kid could be valuable for both of you. There’s a video on Linus Tech Tips on YouTube where he builds a computer from scratch with his very young daughter. It actually went really well but it helps that he’s a bona-fide expert. Anyway, good luck!
@tweezak - More useful advice, thanks.
That link looks great for when I am ready to crack open a computer.
Remember with Mac’s that they are changing over their chips to ones they are making themselves so there may be a compatibility problem further into the future as they drop support for the macs with the older chips. I have a 7 year old macbook air that is no longer supported by apple… Support may last longer with a PC??? Maybe???
Also get as much memory and storage as you can as future bloat will eat it up in years to come.
@Kidsandliz thankfully it is pretty easy to re-purpose older ‘windows’ based equipment with Linux based OS installs. If she is interested in computers that would actually be a good task to have her do when you decide (later) to upgrade/replace this one you are fixin’ to buy.
Probably because my computer saw me researching computers here, it decided to fail. Hours of tab and arrow use led me to a failed mouse driver. Can’t figure out how to update it because the option is grayed out and tabbing jumps over it.
I’m useless.
@kdemo just noticed this for some reason. Did you get it it sorted out? Usually you would want to plug in a USB mouse to deal with this but I’ve had the mouse go psycho on work laptops twice where even that didn’t work. And took a lot of tabbing/fiddling to fix.
Usually it was some bizarre form of hardware failure messing with the driver so you had to get to where you could disable the touchpad…
But admittedly one time I scared the cat and he knocked a glass of mountain dew over… No big deal since I never used the track pad anyway.
@unksol - Oh thanks! How did I miss your post until now?
This is a desktop so no trackpad.
I did try both wired and wireless mouses (I like “mouses”). My brother tried to explain something about safe mode and F8 - I’ll be messing around some more and becoming frustrated, if precedence holds. Thanks for sharing your experience, though.
@kdemo I assume since you tried several you also tried a different USB port? But yeah getting into safe mode should let you get at it. If your in windows 10 it has some extra hoops for some things in safe mode but I don’t think any of that impacts driver uninstalls…
If you don’t get anywhere and he can’t help I can take a crack of you want to send a screenshot of what it’s doing.
@unksol - This is super nice!
Yes, I did try different USB ports, but on the same hub. I haven’t had a chance to mess with it again, but I will definitely ask if I get there.
Appreciate your offer, thank you.
So I think my son is going with a great deal he found on the 14" Lenovo Yoga laptop at Best Buy.
All of your advice was considered and appreciated; You all convinced him that a desktop was not the best idea.
Good chance I’m needing another computer now, so this info will be doubly useful.
Many thanks, everyone. You are beyond meh!
/giphy beyond meh
