This is book 1 of a 6 part series titled “The Belfast Novels”, but don’t let that put you off. The way this book is written, it stands alone quite well. There is no indication it’s the beginning of a series. Even the culmination is complete, without cliffhangers which are so prevalent in series books.
I have no idea if Neville set out to create a series, or wrote this and just felt like there was more he could do with the concept.
I drove to the library and checked out a hardcover copy of this book like a Neanderthal. I hope the ebook becomes available so I can read in the tub. The action sure kicks in fast.
@sammydog01@f00l, this book was a total departure from the light scifi stuff I normally read, but, yes. It’s well written, I agree. And captivating. One of those that I had a hard time putting down. I just wanted to see what happened next.
@sammydog01@f00l I haven’t read Collusion yet, the second book in the series. From the publishers synopsis, it appears to take place contemporaneously with this story, following Garda Inspector Jack Lennon. All the same characters are represented. It seems like it should be interesting. Similar to so many films which tell their story through a series of overlapping vignettes.
I loved this book so much (finished today), that I immediately started on Collusion.
It starts up a short time after the end of the first book.
The first book: I wanted to know more about and go with every single character, including the awful, morally hideous ones. He completely made them live and breathe. I feel like I’ve known them all a long time.
It’s definitely not your typical ghost story. And not one I would have normally gone out of my way to read.
I’m not done yet, I was finishing the two I was in the middle of first. He’s at the funeral with only 9 ghosts left.
The story to me is a bit of a combination of a psychological thriller mixed with a haunting. Because hauntings are quite real, they just do not always involve ghosts outside of the mind of the haunted.
At this point in time, I haven’t decided if they are ghosts, or his guilty conscience tossed together with a history of too much PTSD and too much alcohol.
There are a lot of lessons that could be learned, if we humans could ever learn, from Ireland at the time of the troubles and what came immediately after. I guess I’m a pessimist these days that mankind can mature.
This book makes me feel stupid. I guess I’m not in the right head space to be reading it. I feel like I have had to reread stuff because I don’t know who he’s talking about until a few paragraphs in.
I graduated school with honors and I seriously feel dumb.
@sammydog01 for example… there’s the chapter about the couple dudes in the van with some guy in the back. I’m confused as hell. Then the next chapter explains how the guy got in the back of the van. I don’t know why he purposely writes it that way.
I haven’t figured out, yet, why it’s called the first in the series about Jack … the cop, forget the last name, but Marie’s paramour who ran off, cause other than the fact he (at this point) supposedly sired the child and took off, he’s not been mentioned at all.
I find the book sad. It’s in many ways the stories of many men back in the days of the Irish unrest, or similar things in many parts of the world (yes even here) of a young man who got drawn into a world that seemed exciting at the time but as he has matured he has realized it cost him everything. His family, his pride, his honor and his sanity
@Cerridwyn Yeah, I felt bad for Fegan. He was lied to at an early age- they groomed the kids to get them to join up. But he was one of the most brutal guys out there.
the NPR interview I linked below says that readers were more sympathetic with Fegan than with Marie’s husband. I guess he managed write it that way. Pretty impressive getting us to almost like this person who did, and does, terrible, terrible things.
It’s a loose series in that the focus wanders from one character to another as one begins a new book, but the characters and stories are all connected.
I really like the series, and the atmosphere. The dark pain of Belfast is traced forward into the present through psychological and personal history of the characters.
I admire the writer’s gift for making every character seem fully human, and his gift for interaction and dialogue.
The naming if the series seems to be in contention.
On audible, the English version of the series is called Jack Lennon
even tho Lennon is not present in the first book, and I don’t know how much of him we see in books 5 and 6, which I have not yet started.
The audible Jack Lennon series stops after book 4.
The next two books on audible are given a new series name, DCI Serena Flanagan
(she is a major character in book 4 of the Lennon series.)
Also, book 6 as an audio digital download is available only on audible.co.uk. Not for sale to those of us in the US. I wandered around various ebook/audiobook sites (iBooks, Kobo, nookaudiobooks, Audiobooks.com, google play, estories); no one seems to have the 6th book, So Say The Fallen, available as a downloadable audiobook purchase in the US. I suppose the rights haven’t been arranged.
The book has been released on CD, so it can be purchased in that format, and someone who is patient ought to be able to get the audiobook from inter-library loan if audiobooks are preferred.
The German editions audiobook series is named Gerry Fegan
Tho he is only present in books 1 and 2, and it seems only books 1,2,3 are included in German language versions.
I have not checked to see how other ebook sellers are handling the series.
I finished books 1-4 and admired them all.
I took a break before starting books 5 and 6 to do the anthology Belfast Noir, which is also very good. I’m about 2/3 if the way thru that now.
The Belfast Novels series as of early 2018
The Ghosts Of Belfast
(Gerry Fegan) Collusion
(Gerry Fegan, Jack Lennon) Stolen Souls
(Jack Lennon) The Final Silence
(Jack Lennon, Serena Flanagan) Those We Left Behind
(Serena Flanagan) So Say The Fallen
(Serena Flanagan)
So were the ghosts real? I thought they were just figments of Fegan’s guilt but then others started seeing them. Even little Ellen. Also what did you think of killing the priest? I didn’t get that- it just seemed wrong.
@sammydog01
I never thought they were real. I guess because I don’t believe a ghost would be that out for revenge. But I suppose they could have been.
The priest was a part of the entire thing. He didn’t wield a knife or fire a gun, but he was complicit in it all and was obviously McGinty’s man, not god’s.
@Cerridwyn I thought he was losing his mind from the guilt. Then Campbell saw them, plus one extra that Fegan had nothing to do with. Then Ellen saw them. I’m probably being too literal.
The priest could have stopped them but he acted out of cowardice- he actually tried to stop them but got scared. They mentioned that people hid in their houses to not get involved. I expect his actions were extremely common. So why did they single him out? Or if you don’t believe the ghosts were real in the story why did Fegan choose him with all of the other bad guys out there. That bombing killed three men outright,
@Cerridwyn Quote from the priest: “There’s things I could have changed. Things I could have stopped. Things I should never have done. I always told myself I’d had no choice, but I was wrong. I always had a choice. You know what I’m talking about.” Father Coulter was plagued by nightmares too. I really felt sorry for him. And poor Joe-Joe, probably his only real friend. I hope they found him a good home.
At first I thought the ghosts were psychological. Or a partial product of alcoholism.
Then other people were aware of them.
So I take them, I guess, to be a part of the deal atmosphere of Belfast. A kind of unquiet miasma that is always present for those who can see.
Supernatural things figure a little, but far less, into the later books.
The ghosts gave me an early sense if history’s weight, sharply personalized.
Within the story, they are certainly real to the characters. For me as reader, I am ok with them being real, or psychological, or metaphor, or all three and then some.
As for the the priest: at the time f his death, I figured Fegan was simply driven by the ghosts and his guilt.
Later (and in later books) it becomes clear that the priest was far more complicit; that he did nasty message-carrying and threat-carrying for the murderous bosses, and perhaps more. He was no innocent, and he knew what he was doing.
The thing I like best about the books is that no one is just a characature or a standard textbook example of a character trope. You can see a little of how each person became what they are.
What a horrible political history Belfast had in the latter 20th century. I hope they do leave all that behind.
@sammydog01
I think you were supposed to
That being said, religion has been ripe with theologians and spiritual leaders (to attempt to be generic) that cared less about their god and their faith than they did about power/greed/sex/whatever cause they supported. You see that in any conflict situation where faith/belief sits at the table from the crusades to the troubles in Ireland, to ISIS and the middle east today.
(want a non-fiction book to put on the table, I recommend Terror in the Name of God.)
@f00l To me it was obvious in this first book that he was complicit. The clergy took sides in the conflict in Ireland just as much as they do in the ISIS nightmare in the middle east today.
As for the ghosts, they could be any sort of combination between brain damage from CTI’s, alcohol, other injuries, mental instability, guilt, etc. I guess it depends on if you believe in them. And if you do, what you believe they are.
I definitely believe in hauntings, ghosts in the since of these books, I’m not so sure.
@Cerridwyn I get that he was complicit but he also had remorse unlike most of those guys. Or maybe they do? I thought it was interesting that the one dead guy Campbell felt bad about is the one that showed up when he was dying. Maybe that’s the point?
Still the author had Ellen see the ghosts if I remember correctly. I don’t think you need to believe in ghosts in real life to believe in them in a book. Star Wars made me believe in Wookies.
I never expected Fegan to survive the book. Anyone else?
@sammydog01 I did not expect Fegan to live into his ripe old age. But he was a very hardened man.
There is a very similar story by Roddy Doyle titled The Dead Republic. If you found appealing the Irish colour and history of “the troubles”, I definitely recommend.
Roddy Doyle is probably best known for his books The Barrytown Trilogy which was made into the films The Commitments, The Snapper, and The Van. All starring Hollywood favourite Irishman Colm Meaney.
@ruouttaurmind@sammydog01
back in the day, when i was in college, way too many years ago, there was a student done play about this. (way before any sort of ‘peace’)
I remember the line to a song, that I didn’t know came from somewhere else at the time…
The English can’t remember and the Irish can’t forget.
Those who lived through it, it shaped not just their lives, but their souls.
There’s a new “whisper” reply option. Sort of a PM type deal. Interesting.
But I shall respond to the masses…
Something that’s been lost in the American interpretations of Ireland’s history: Most here envision Ireland as a people oppressed by the English. Although true in early history, modern history is a bit different.
Ireland, and Northern Ireland were divided by The Fourth Home Rule Act (aka The Government Of Ireland Act 1920) which provided a “safe haven” for Unionists who preferred to remain within The Realm, while Nationalists insisted on an autonomous state.
As a side note, the persecution of minority Irish Protestants played a large background role in “the troubles” and was, in part, motivation for Parliament dividing Ireland as it did.
The period from about 1880’s through the early 1980’s is a vastly complex tale of factions and sub-factions, bigotry, persecution, terrorism, intrigue and subterfuge. As is the case with all history, the “facts” vary based on the originator.
One reason I believe Americans have a perception of an oppressed Ireland has quite a bit to do with Nationalist (ie IRA) spin doctoring to gain sympathetic American support for the cause of a unified Ireland.
@ruouttaurmind@sammydog01
you know what I hate? When i have a reply half typed, and well, forget to finish and say it.
I agree with @ruouttaurmind but do not fully blame the IRA. There were a lot of powerful Irish Catholics in this country, the Kennedy’s come first to mind, but many others, who flamed sympathy, some open, some subtle. And we yanks have always fallen for the honorable underdog, in this case the Protestants and our ally the UK.
That being said, a nation was splintered that might never see the light of day together again. One that in today’s world would rather stand together than with the Brit’s and Brexit. The EU was good for Eire.
But that’s not a part of the story.
And as I have been known to say. If you hear two sides of a story, the truth is somewhere in the middle.
But in the end, it was never about faith or family. Like nearly every war since the dawn of mankind, it was about greed and power
One that in today’s world would rather stand together than with the Brit’s and Brexit.
Worth noting: Britain, nearly 100 years ago, granted the people of Northern Ireland the right to rejoin the Republic of Ireland. This option remains available to this day, and was reaffirmed in Britain’s initial proposition of Brexit.
@ruouttaurmind
Why is Puerto Rico not a state? It’s not because they every day people don’t want it to be one and haven’t for years, but the people in power, both on and off the island don’t.
Ditto the two Irelands. Britain may say that’s an option, but they would fight politically for it not to happen.
Lots of that happening in the world today, Scotland, Caledonia, etc.
I think you all have covered it well enough. I am still unsure if Gerry Fegan’s ghosts were spectral or psychological.
As a sort of side note, the history reported in the book was pretty spot on. Events, dates, names, factions, sub-factions… all were very accurate. The author did not take any liberties with the facts of Ireland’s tumultuous history.
Here’s the Amazon page if you want to read the reviews. 337 pages. That’s not too long.
https://www.amazon.com/Ghosts-Belfast-Novels-Book-ebook/dp/B004HYHAX0/ref=la_B0035NC6EM_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1517104613&sr=1-3
BN link for those who care:
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/ghosts-of-belfast-stuart-neville/1100396094?ean=9781569477069#/
This is book 1 of a 6 part series titled “The Belfast Novels”, but don’t let that put you off. The way this book is written, it stands alone quite well. There is no indication it’s the beginning of a series. Even the culmination is complete, without cliffhangers which are so prevalent in series books.
I have no idea if Neville set out to create a series, or wrote this and just felt like there was more he could do with the concept.
Cool. I own this one also. Downloading …
@f00l I put a hold on it at the library. They own 3 copies so it must be popular.
@f00l A Gerard Doyle narration. The best possible choice to read an Irish story!
@ruouttaurmind
He did this?
He did an incredible job on SOIAF 1-3, then fucked up the next two by forgetting certain voices for some characters.
He really messed up the voices for Melisandre and Daenerys.
@f00l Didn’t Roy Dotrice do those?
@ruouttaurmind
Damn. Yes. I just got the names mixed up for some reason.
@f00l I remember Dotrice primarily from his role as Amadeus’ father in the 80’s film.
FWIW, Ghosts Of Belfast is running about $3.75 with free shipping on eBay (paperback)
I’ll go this week and see if I can find it at Half-Price Books or the library. If not, Amazon is my next stop.
I drove to the library and checked out a hardcover copy of this book like a Neanderthal. I hope the ebook becomes available so I can read in the tub. The action sure kicks in fast.
@sammydog01 As it often does in the tub.
@therealjrn
/giphy rimshot
OH MY GOD NOT THE PLIERS!
Damn, this guy can write. Damn.
Amazing narration too. About 1/4 of the way in, now.
@f00l I love the concept with the chapter headings.
@sammydog01 @f00l, this book was a total departure from the light scifi stuff I normally read, but, yes. It’s well written, I agree. And captivating. One of those that I had a hard time putting down. I just wanted to see what happened next.
@ruouttaurmind
He writes in such a honest and human way.
I am hooked on all the characters in the book. Even the most reprehensible ones have all the human dimensions.
Just wow.
At first I thought the ghosts were in his mind. Now I’m wondering. I need to set a few hours aside today to read this.
@sammydog01
I love this book. Just so good.
@sammydog01 @f00l I haven’t read Collusion yet, the second book in the series. From the publishers synopsis, it appears to take place contemporaneously with this story, following Garda Inspector Jack Lennon. All the same characters are represented. It seems like it should be interesting. Similar to so many films which tell their story through a series of overlapping vignettes.
@ruouttaurmind
I loved this book so much (finished today), that I immediately started on Collusion.
It starts up a short time after the end of the first book.
The first book: I wanted to know more about and go with every single character, including the awful, morally hideous ones. He completely made them live and breathe. I feel like I’ve known them all a long time.
Damn good writer.
Thanks for this book.
It’s definitely not your typical ghost story. And not one I would have normally gone out of my way to read.
I’m not done yet, I was finishing the two I was in the middle of first. He’s at the funeral with only 9 ghosts left.
The story to me is a bit of a combination of a psychological thriller mixed with a haunting. Because hauntings are quite real, they just do not always involve ghosts outside of the mind of the haunted.
At this point in time, I haven’t decided if they are ghosts, or his guilty conscience tossed together with a history of too much PTSD and too much alcohol.
There are a lot of lessons that could be learned, if we humans could ever learn, from Ireland at the time of the troubles and what came immediately after. I guess I’m a pessimist these days that mankind can mature.
1/3 of the way into the second book in the series.
Just went ahead and bought the third book.
Why wait? This guy is the real deal as a writer.
Again, thx for clueing us in
@f00l
so what is it that makes you like it so much?
If we’re supposed to discuss the book, we should discuss the book
@Cerridwyn are we good for spoilers yet?
@sammydog01 I think that’s your call.
@Cerridwyn
I was waiting for a few more people to finish before I got into all that.
However, some of my non-spoiler reasons for looking the book are previously posted here:
https://meh.com/forum/topics/book-club--ghosts-of-belfast#5a740886aa32380368620a4f
And here:
https://meh.com/forum/topics/book-club--ghosts-of-belfast#5a74e95b2dddbd0bc8e438d9
Roll call- who’s reading the book and are you done yet?
/giphy mst3k robot roll call
@sammydog01
Finished the third one in the series.
Damn fine writer.
Very atmospheric.
The first one is the best so far. The others are fine, too; but more conventional as police/corruption/thriller type books.
@sammydog01 I’m 122 pages in.
This book makes me feel stupid. I guess I’m not in the right head space to be reading it. I feel like I have had to reread stuff because I don’t know who he’s talking about until a few paragraphs in.
I graduated school with honors and I seriously feel dumb.
@RiotDemon All those Irish names sound the same. I’m having the same problem but I keep reading anyway
@sammydog01 for example… there’s the chapter about the couple dudes in the van with some guy in the back. I’m confused as hell. Then the next chapter explains how the guy got in the back of the van. I don’t know why he purposely writes it that way.
Reading, not done, but I’m not bothered by spoilers
I’m behind on the book (stupid Animal Crossing) but let’s open this up to spoilers. I may be scarce for a couple of days while I finish up. Discuss.
I haven’t figured out, yet, why it’s called the first in the series about Jack … the cop, forget the last name, but Marie’s paramour who ran off, cause other than the fact he (at this point) supposedly sired the child and took off, he’s not been mentioned at all.
I find the book sad. It’s in many ways the stories of many men back in the days of the Irish unrest, or similar things in many parts of the world (yes even here) of a young man who got drawn into a world that seemed exciting at the time but as he has matured he has realized it cost him everything. His family, his pride, his honor and his sanity
@Cerridwyn Yeah, I felt bad for Fegan. He was lied to at an early age- they groomed the kids to get them to join up. But he was one of the most brutal guys out there.
the NPR interview I linked below says that readers were more sympathetic with Fegan than with Marie’s husband. I guess he managed write it that way. Pretty impressive getting us to almost like this person who did, and does, terrible, terrible things.
@sammydog01
/
or something?
@Cerridwyn I just started “three”. Finishing it tonight.
@sammydog01 so how do these make a series? I guess I don’t get it.
@Cerridwyn @f00l has read them all, I just finished the first one. I found an interview with Stuart Neville on NPR that was kind of interesting. I think the books are really loosely tied together.
https://www.npr.org/2013/06/17/191318613/in-nevilles-thrillers-belfasts-violent-past-still-burns
@Cerridwyn
@sammydog01
@ruouttaurmind
It’s a loose series in that the focus wanders from one character to another as one begins a new book, but the characters and stories are all connected.
I really like the series, and the atmosphere. The dark pain of Belfast is traced forward into the present through psychological and personal history of the characters.
I admire the writer’s gift for making every character seem fully human, and his gift for interaction and dialogue.
The naming if the series seems to be in contention.
On audible, the English version of the series is called
Jack Lennon
even tho Lennon is not present in the first book, and I don’t know how much of him we see in books 5 and 6, which I have not yet started.
The audible Jack Lennon series stops after book 4.
The next two books on audible are given a new series name,
DCI Serena Flanagan
(she is a major character in book 4 of the Lennon series.)
Also, book 6 as an audio digital download is available only on audible.co.uk. Not for sale to those of us in the US. I wandered around various ebook/audiobook sites (iBooks, Kobo, nookaudiobooks, Audiobooks.com, google play, estories); no one seems to have the 6th book, So Say The Fallen, available as a downloadable audiobook purchase in the US. I suppose the rights haven’t been arranged.
The book has been released on CD, so it can be purchased in that format, and someone who is patient ought to be able to get the audiobook from inter-library loan if audiobooks are preferred.
The German editions audiobook series is named
Gerry Fegan
Tho he is only present in books 1 and 2, and it seems only books 1,2,3 are included in German language versions.
Amazon treats the 6 books as one series:
The Belfast Novels
Which seems to me more sensible and more evocative.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HIQ1BYM/ref=series_rw_dp_sw
I have not checked to see how other ebook sellers are handling the series.
I finished books 1-4 and admired them all.
I took a break before starting books 5 and 6 to do the anthology Belfast Noir, which is also very good. I’m about 2/3 if the way thru that now.
The Belfast Novels series as of early 2018
The Ghosts Of Belfast
(Gerry Fegan)
Collusion
(Gerry Fegan, Jack Lennon)
Stolen Souls
(Jack Lennon)
The Final Silence
(Jack Lennon, Serena Flanagan)
Those We Left Behind
(Serena Flanagan)
So Say The Fallen
(Serena Flanagan)
I hope Neville keeps going. I want more.
So were the ghosts real? I thought they were just figments of Fegan’s guilt but then others started seeing them. Even little Ellen. Also what did you think of killing the priest? I didn’t get that- it just seemed wrong.
@sammydog01
I never thought they were real. I guess because I don’t believe a ghost would be that out for revenge. But I suppose they could have been.
The priest was a part of the entire thing. He didn’t wield a knife or fire a gun, but he was complicit in it all and was obviously McGinty’s man, not god’s.
@Cerridwyn I thought he was losing his mind from the guilt. Then Campbell saw them, plus one extra that Fegan had nothing to do with. Then Ellen saw them. I’m probably being too literal.
The priest could have stopped them but he acted out of cowardice- he actually tried to stop them but got scared. They mentioned that people hid in their houses to not get involved. I expect his actions were extremely common. So why did they single him out? Or if you don’t believe the ghosts were real in the story why did Fegan choose him with all of the other bad guys out there. That bombing killed three men outright,
@Cerridwyn Quote from the priest: “There’s things I could have changed. Things I could have stopped. Things I should never have done. I always told myself I’d had no choice, but I was wrong. I always had a choice. You know what I’m talking about.” Father Coulter was plagued by nightmares too. I really felt sorry for him. And poor Joe-Joe, probably his only real friend. I hope they found him a good home.
@f00l Hop right in. What did you think?
@sammydog01
At first I thought the ghosts were psychological. Or a partial product of alcoholism.
Then other people were aware of them.
So I take them, I guess, to be a part of the deal atmosphere of Belfast. A kind of unquiet miasma that is always present for those who can see.
Supernatural things figure a little, but far less, into the later books.
The ghosts gave me an early sense if history’s weight, sharply personalized.
Within the story, they are certainly real to the characters. For me as reader, I am ok with them being real, or psychological, or metaphor, or all three and then some.
As for the the priest: at the time f his death, I figured Fegan was simply driven by the ghosts and his guilt.
Later (and in later books) it becomes clear that the priest was far more complicit; that he did nasty message-carrying and threat-carrying for the murderous bosses, and perhaps more. He was no innocent, and he knew what he was doing.
The thing I like best about the books is that no one is just a characature or a standard textbook example of a character trope. You can see a little of how each person became what they are.
What a horrible political history Belfast had in the latter 20th century. I hope they do leave all that behind.
@sammydog01
I think you were supposed to
That being said, religion has been ripe with theologians and spiritual leaders (to attempt to be generic) that cared less about their god and their faith than they did about power/greed/sex/whatever cause they supported. You see that in any conflict situation where faith/belief sits at the table from the crusades to the troubles in Ireland, to ISIS and the middle east today.
(want a non-fiction book to put on the table, I recommend Terror in the Name of God.)
@f00l To me it was obvious in this first book that he was complicit. The clergy took sides in the conflict in Ireland just as much as they do in the ISIS nightmare in the middle east today.
As for the ghosts, they could be any sort of combination between brain damage from CTI’s, alcohol, other injuries, mental instability, guilt, etc. I guess it depends on if you believe in them. And if you do, what you believe they are.
I definitely believe in hauntings, ghosts in the since of these books, I’m not so sure.
@Cerridwyn I get that he was complicit but he also had remorse unlike most of those guys. Or maybe they do? I thought it was interesting that the one dead guy Campbell felt bad about is the one that showed up when he was dying. Maybe that’s the point?
Still the author had Ellen see the ghosts if I remember correctly. I don’t think you need to believe in ghosts in real life to believe in them in a book. Star Wars made me believe in Wookies.
I never expected Fegan to survive the book. Anyone else?
@sammydog01 I did not expect Fegan to live into his ripe old age. But he was a very hardened man.
There is a very similar story by Roddy Doyle titled The Dead Republic. If you found appealing the Irish colour and history of “the troubles”, I definitely recommend.
Roddy Doyle is probably best known for his books The Barrytown Trilogy which was made into the films The Commitments, The Snapper, and The Van. All starring Hollywood favourite Irishman Colm Meaney.
@ruouttaurmind @sammydog01
back in the day, when i was in college, way too many years ago, there was a student done play about this. (way before any sort of ‘peace’)
I remember the line to a song, that I didn’t know came from somewhere else at the time…
The English can’t remember and the Irish can’t forget.
Those who lived through it, it shaped not just their lives, but their souls.
@Cerridwyn @sammydog01
There’s a new “whisper” reply option. Sort of a PM type deal. Interesting.
But I shall respond to the masses…
Something that’s been lost in the American interpretations of Ireland’s history: Most here envision Ireland as a people oppressed by the English. Although true in early history, modern history is a bit different.
Ireland, and Northern Ireland were divided by The Fourth Home Rule Act (aka The Government Of Ireland Act 1920) which provided a “safe haven” for Unionists who preferred to remain within The Realm, while Nationalists insisted on an autonomous state.
As a side note, the persecution of minority Irish Protestants played a large background role in “the troubles” and was, in part, motivation for Parliament dividing Ireland as it did.
The period from about 1880’s through the early 1980’s is a vastly complex tale of factions and sub-factions, bigotry, persecution, terrorism, intrigue and subterfuge. As is the case with all history, the “facts” vary based on the originator.
One reason I believe Americans have a perception of an oppressed Ireland has quite a bit to do with Nationalist (ie IRA) spin doctoring to gain sympathetic American support for the cause of a unified Ireland.
@ruouttaurmind @sammydog01
you know what I hate? When i have a reply half typed, and well, forget to finish and say it.
I agree with @ruouttaurmind but do not fully blame the IRA. There were a lot of powerful Irish Catholics in this country, the Kennedy’s come first to mind, but many others, who flamed sympathy, some open, some subtle. And we yanks have always fallen for the honorable underdog, in this case the Protestants and our ally the UK.
That being said, a nation was splintered that might never see the light of day together again. One that in today’s world would rather stand together than with the Brit’s and Brexit. The EU was good for Eire.
But that’s not a part of the story.
And as I have been known to say. If you hear two sides of a story, the truth is somewhere in the middle.
But in the end, it was never about faith or family. Like nearly every war since the dawn of mankind, it was about greed and power
@Cerridwyn
Worth noting: Britain, nearly 100 years ago, granted the people of Northern Ireland the right to rejoin the Republic of Ireland. This option remains available to this day, and was reaffirmed in Britain’s initial proposition of Brexit.
@ruouttaurmind
Why is Puerto Rico not a state? It’s not because they every day people don’t want it to be one and haven’t for years, but the people in power, both on and off the island don’t.
Ditto the two Irelands. Britain may say that’s an option, but they would fight politically for it not to happen.
Lots of that happening in the world today, Scotland, Caledonia, etc.
Barnes and Noble lists them this way, oddly
The Jack Lennon Novels
The Ghosts Of Belfast - #1
Collusion - #2
Stolen Souls -#3
The Final Silence - #4
The Belfast Novels
The Ghosts Of Belfast - #1
Those We Left Behind - #5
So Say The Fallen - #6
Sorta strange
And okay, I’ll read the next one at some point.
@f00l
@sammydog01
Anyone else talking?
@Targaryen Did you find a copy? @ruouttaurmind Any comments?
@sammydog01
I think you all have covered it well enough. I am still unsure if Gerry Fegan’s ghosts were spectral or psychological.
As a sort of side note, the history reported in the book was pretty spot on. Events, dates, names, factions, sub-factions… all were very accurate. The author did not take any liberties with the facts of Ireland’s tumultuous history.
@ruouttaurmind I loved the book- thanks for recommending it.
/giphy well done
@sammydog01 Damn I knew I needed to buy a book but forgot which one I’ll check for it.
@sammydog01 @Targaryen
@ruouttaurmind @sammydog01
Had to pause this week. Really really busy and tired.
But 1/2 way thru book 5 and still very impressed with this writer and series.
@sammydog01
it feels as if this discussion is done?
@Cerridwyn Sounds right. I’ll go start a new voting thread.
@Cerridwyn Spoke too soon- let’s wait for @f00l to finish.
@Cerridwyn @sammydog01
@f00l Wait, I just realized you said book 5. Sorry. Are we done discussing the first one?
@sammydog01
I’m ok with being done and ok with more discussion. Whatever people want.
@sammydog01
Book 5 in the series is worthy.
@sammydog01 I think @f00l is checking in to update progress through the series. And to make us remedial readers feel dumb.
@ruouttaurmind @sammydog01
Nonsense. I am the dumb one.
But I do read a lot. (often I “read” with my ears.)
/giphy dumb
