Credit Unions. They lend local. The depositors are the shareholders. So dollars stay local longer than a national bank. Also, CUs check off some boxes for religious practices, notably those that prohibit lending (for profit).
That said, national banks with branches where you are, or affiliation with issuing Visa or Mastercard credit or debit cards could be a factor for you as well as rewards with those - travel, points, cash back, etc.
However, IMO, the days of a branch are sunsetting. Plenty of virtual banks and banks that make currency exchanges super simple if that’s a benefit to you.
@mike808 Most credit unions have an agreement between thousands of other credit unions and you can do your business at one of those. My credit union is 2500 miles away. The “branch” I use is a couple of blocks from me. It does take longer to do a transaction because they aren’t branches of the same company, but it is a minor inconvenience. I keep that account active because if I did not I’d lose the credit card I got through them. I’ve had that for years and so dropping that credit card would negatively affect my credit rating both due to loss of credit (so how much I charge would now be a larger percent of my credit even if the amount didn’t change) and due to making the average age of my credit “younger”.
@mike808 We have banked at the local credit union for years and are generally happy with them. But their online banking website is the worst - total crap. I only use it if I have to. I do almost all of my bill paying via the website of a national bank where we also have an account.
@macromeh I would agree with that. The Credit Unions are separately regulated from banks (remember the Keating Savings and Loans scandal?), and so their ATMs also operate on a different network.
They don’t have to follow the PCI security requirements of national banks because they aren’t part of the Visa/Mastercard/Discover/Amex networks (the Credit Union issued cards don’t have one of those logos on them - and thus are only accepted at Credit Union ATMs/branches). Those that do are likely part of a debit network owned by Pulse or Star (logo on the back of the card), which are in turn, owned by Visa or Mastercard respectively, and they apply the same security to the debit networks as they do for credit transactions.
The point is that because Credit Unions are “doing their own thing”, they don’t get the same security benefits that come with that Visa or Mastercard logo on the cards they issue. A walled garden has pros and cons.
One of the biggest “pro” is that CUs don’t charge their other association members customers arbitrary and outrageously regressive fees like the national banks do - even for deposits. So if you use ATMs, a CU is an attractive option.
@macromeh Credit Unions just don’t have the scale to support e-commerce development that a national bank and global industry associations that support them in innovating everything from “card” format (virtual cards like privacy.com and the national banks offer, mobile card wallets, tap-and-pay capabilities, etc.) to the security of the transactions themselves - PIN protection, biometrics, fraud protection, rewards, concierge services, and more.
@Kidsandliz I’ve had an account with the same credit union since I was a kid, and my account number is so low - five digits - that once when I gave it to a teller they were kind of waiting for me to go on, because I guess they’re all eight digits or something like that now.
Look at ATMs where you will need to use one for the growing infrequency of needing physical cash, if that’s a thing for you. The bank that owns them won’t charge you for using them. Other banks cards get charged $2-5 per transaction.
However, lots of places let you do pin debit cash back for small amounts of cash (<$100), notably grocery stores.
Many places do local awards for different categories, voted by the community. That may be at least another data point. Rochester has one that has been going for a long time. I can’t say I agree in all cases, but it is an opinion poll and everyone has one.
Think also about what you want in a bank. Do you want a one-stop-shop for everything? What is that everything?
I bank with a large national. I used to do the local thing, but they kept closing, merging, getting in regulatory hot water.
And I literally have everything under one roof. I can see a person if I want, or do things virtually or online. I like the options.
And not being a young whippersnapper any more, it will be easier on my heirs if everything from retirement, savings, checking and primary credit lines are all in the same place. Account numbers don’t change if you move anymore either.
And on a personal level - my father uses a local credit union and they are a pain in my ass if I need to do anything, and yes, my name is on the account (he’s 91). When he had a big bank account a few years ago, it was much much easier.
Weigh the pros and cons. Ask the local BBB if there is one or local papers about problems, etc, that might have arisen in the locals. Go in, if that is what you need, ask around. Heck, even ask the local DA’s office
What services do you want or need from your bank? I’ve done almost all my stuff online for the last 14 years. They have no banking locations and refund all ATM fees so I don’t really need to go into a bank. But I do have a separate savings account with the credit union that I got my mortgage through. I pay that online too though just transfer the funds.
If you actually want to be able to talk to a person/go in I would definitely agree with a credit union.
@unksol What I need is to prequalify for a bridge mortgage. My thought was that since NFCU has no physical presence in my new location (nor even within 100 miles), they couldn’t prequalify me, so I couldn’t put an offer on a house. Wrong. Recalculating!
@OldCatLady in my case my branch is probably 50+ miles. But they operate in the state so the only condition for prequalifing was I have or open an existing savings account with them. I had my first bank account with them when I was a teenager and turned that back on with the same account.
They didn’t have a branch where I was renting from college. But I just drove to one to do some minor paperwork. And they didn’t have one close to where I bought. But they sent someone to the closing.
I think a mortgage is a big enough transaction it’s at least a whole day thing for the agent assigned so… plus they have to be paying them milage/travel
@OldCatLady@unksol Not any more. Digital signatures and mortgage paperwork automation has eliminated all the expensive handholding in the last decade.
One of the casualties of growth and automation driven by “shareholder returns” - the stuff powering the baby boomers’ retirement funds for the last 30 years. It’s going to be ugly when all those boomers don’t have anyone who can afford all that stock they’ve been hodling.
@mike808@OldCatLady not sure what you’re refurring to. Credit unions aren’t going anywhere. None of that was expensive. Someone is going to be at the closing.
If your anger is at the banks yes that was a lot of BS and why you avoid banks and use credit unions
@OldCatLady@unksol I simply meant that the days of your bank sending someone for an overnight trip to participate in a home closing are long over. That’s all.
Most closings there is just the title company overseeing the escrows and transfers and cross-checking the paperwork for everyone attending by zoom or digital signatures. Just you and the title/closing company.
The industry has consolidated around big lenders that have automated the crap out of lending, which necessarily eliminates much of the “personal connection” people used to have with local banks. The little guys just can’t compete anymore. Most small banks these days are really just boutique banks setup for very wealthy people to front/lend themselves money for their other projects.
Credit Unions are the only places you’ll see any kind of real individualized customer service these days. At least in the metro areas across the nation. And that’s the niche they serve, and a definite plus if that’s your philosophy towards lending.
I was just mourning the loss of that mutually beneficial relationship between smalltown lenders and the community they serviced. “It’s just business, you understand” is the mantra these days with banks pressured to forever go big or go home and the shareholders drive to become “too big to fail” - meaning privatize the gains and socialize the losses.
@mike808@unksol The nice realtor I talked to says the closing is done in a local (there) title broker’s office. Or in the local (to me) credit union office. All electronic, only need a notary. I’m learning so much about post-COVID business practices. If only I didn’t have to learn bit by bit.
@OldCatLady@unksol
Yep. That’s pretty much it. You and the title broker/closing specialist to notarize everything and go through the checklists. DocuSign (or a competitor) can take care of anything electronically signed by whoever isn’t there in person (lien releases, multiple owners/lenders, etc.).
The number of people required to be in the room together swapping stacks of paper is approaching 1 or 2 at this point.
Credit Unions. They lend local. The depositors are the shareholders. So dollars stay local longer than a national bank. Also, CUs check off some boxes for religious practices, notably those that prohibit lending (for profit).
That said, national banks with branches where you are, or affiliation with issuing Visa or Mastercard credit or debit cards could be a factor for you as well as rewards with those - travel, points, cash back, etc.
However, IMO, the days of a branch are sunsetting. Plenty of virtual banks and banks that make currency exchanges super simple if that’s a benefit to you.
@mike808 Most credit unions have an agreement between thousands of other credit unions and you can do your business at one of those. My credit union is 2500 miles away. The “branch” I use is a couple of blocks from me. It does take longer to do a transaction because they aren’t branches of the same company, but it is a minor inconvenience. I keep that account active because if I did not I’d lose the credit card I got through them. I’ve had that for years and so dropping that credit card would negatively affect my credit rating both due to loss of credit (so how much I charge would now be a larger percent of my credit even if the amount didn’t change) and due to making the average age of my credit “younger”.
@mike808 We have banked at the local credit union for years and are generally happy with them. But their online banking website is the worst - total crap. I only use it if I have to. I do almost all of my bill paying via the website of a national bank where we also have an account.
@macromeh I would agree with that. The Credit Unions are separately regulated from banks (remember the Keating Savings and Loans scandal?), and so their ATMs also operate on a different network.
They don’t have to follow the PCI security requirements of national banks because they aren’t part of the Visa/Mastercard/Discover/Amex networks (the Credit Union issued cards don’t have one of those logos on them - and thus are only accepted at Credit Union ATMs/branches). Those that do are likely part of a debit network owned by Pulse or Star (logo on the back of the card), which are in turn, owned by Visa or Mastercard respectively, and they apply the same security to the debit networks as they do for credit transactions.
The point is that because Credit Unions are “doing their own thing”, they don’t get the same security benefits that come with that Visa or Mastercard logo on the cards they issue. A walled garden has pros and cons.
One of the biggest “pro” is that CUs don’t charge their other association members customers arbitrary and outrageously regressive fees like the national banks do - even for deposits. So if you use ATMs, a CU is an attractive option.
@macromeh Credit Unions just don’t have the scale to support e-commerce development that a national bank and global industry associations that support them in innovating everything from “card” format (virtual cards like privacy.com and the national banks offer, mobile card wallets, tap-and-pay capabilities, etc.) to the security of the transactions themselves - PIN protection, biometrics, fraud protection, rewards, concierge services, and more.
As I said, pros and cons.
@Kidsandliz I’ve had an account with the same credit union since I was a kid, and my account number is so low - five digits - that once when I gave it to a teller they were kind of waiting for me to go on, because I guess they’re all eight digits or something like that now.
Look at ATMs where you will need to use one for the growing infrequency of needing physical cash, if that’s a thing for you. The bank that owns them won’t charge you for using them. Other banks cards get charged $2-5 per transaction.
However, lots of places let you do pin debit cash back for small amounts of cash (<$100), notably grocery stores.
Many places do local awards for different categories, voted by the community. That may be at least another data point. Rochester has one that has been going for a long time. I can’t say I agree in all cases, but it is an opinion poll and everyone has one.
https://democratandchronicle.secondstreetapp.com/Rochesters-Choice-2020-Winners/
@ybmuG There are ‘Best of’ lists at the Chamber of Commerce. I didn’t think of that. Thanks!
Think also about what you want in a bank. Do you want a one-stop-shop for everything? What is that everything?
I bank with a large national. I used to do the local thing, but they kept closing, merging, getting in regulatory hot water.
And I literally have everything under one roof. I can see a person if I want, or do things virtually or online. I like the options.
And not being a young whippersnapper any more, it will be easier on my heirs if everything from retirement, savings, checking and primary credit lines are all in the same place. Account numbers don’t change if you move anymore either.
And on a personal level - my father uses a local credit union and they are a pain in my ass if I need to do anything, and yes, my name is on the account (he’s 91). When he had a big bank account a few years ago, it was much much easier.
Weigh the pros and cons. Ask the local BBB if there is one or local papers about problems, etc, that might have arisen in the locals. Go in, if that is what you need, ask around. Heck, even ask the local DA’s office
@Cerridwyn Excellent points, and I’m revisiting my assumptions. Thanks very much.
What services do you want or need from your bank? I’ve done almost all my stuff online for the last 14 years. They have no banking locations and refund all ATM fees so I don’t really need to go into a bank. But I do have a separate savings account with the credit union that I got my mortgage through. I pay that online too though just transfer the funds.
If you actually want to be able to talk to a person/go in I would definitely agree with a credit union.
@unksol What I need is to prequalify for a bridge mortgage. My thought was that since NFCU has no physical presence in my new location (nor even within 100 miles), they couldn’t prequalify me, so I couldn’t put an offer on a house. Wrong. Recalculating!
@OldCatLady in my case my branch is probably 50+ miles. But they operate in the state so the only condition for prequalifing was I have or open an existing savings account with them. I had my first bank account with them when I was a teenager and turned that back on with the same account.
They didn’t have a branch where I was renting from college. But I just drove to one to do some minor paperwork. And they didn’t have one close to where I bought. But they sent someone to the closing.
I think a mortgage is a big enough transaction it’s at least a whole day thing for the agent assigned so… plus they have to be paying them milage/travel
@OldCatLady @unksol Not any more. Digital signatures and mortgage paperwork automation has eliminated all the expensive handholding in the last decade.
One of the casualties of growth and automation driven by “shareholder returns” - the stuff powering the baby boomers’ retirement funds for the last 30 years. It’s going to be ugly when all those boomers don’t have anyone who can afford all that stock they’ve been hodling.
@mike808 @OldCatLady not sure what you’re refurring to. Credit unions aren’t going anywhere. None of that was expensive. Someone is going to be at the closing.
If your anger is at the banks yes that was a lot of BS and why you avoid banks and use credit unions
@OldCatLady @unksol I simply meant that the days of your bank sending someone for an overnight trip to participate in a home closing are long over. That’s all.
Most closings there is just the title company overseeing the escrows and transfers and cross-checking the paperwork for everyone attending by zoom or digital signatures. Just you and the title/closing company.
The industry has consolidated around big lenders that have automated the crap out of lending, which necessarily eliminates much of the “personal connection” people used to have with local banks. The little guys just can’t compete anymore. Most small banks these days are really just boutique banks setup for very wealthy people to front/lend themselves money for their other projects.
Credit Unions are the only places you’ll see any kind of real individualized customer service these days. At least in the metro areas across the nation. And that’s the niche they serve, and a definite plus if that’s your philosophy towards lending.
I was just mourning the loss of that mutually beneficial relationship between smalltown lenders and the community they serviced. “It’s just business, you understand” is the mantra these days with banks pressured to forever go big or go home and the shareholders drive to become “too big to fail” - meaning privatize the gains and socialize the losses.
@mike808 @OldCatLady @unksol Corporate socialism is the best socialism!
@mike808 @unksol The nice realtor I talked to says the closing is done in a local (there) title broker’s office. Or in the local (to me) credit union office. All electronic, only need a notary. I’m learning so much about post-COVID business practices. If only I didn’t have to learn bit by bit.
@OldCatLady @unksol
Yep. That’s pretty much it. You and the title broker/closing specialist to notarize everything and go through the checklists. DocuSign (or a competitor) can take care of anything electronically signed by whoever isn’t there in person (lien releases, multiple owners/lenders, etc.).
The number of people required to be in the room together swapping stacks of paper is approaching 1 or 2 at this point.
@mike808 So what else do I have to discover the hard way?
@OldCatLady How to pick a winning lottery ticket?