Are home loans public info? Or do I blame my lender for being spammed?
4So, I just bought a home. And it’s awesome, and I feel like I’ve finally entered the adult world or something.
But, we’ve been getting spammed by multiple companies trying to sell us some kind of mortgage insurance (in case of death, dismemberment, etc). The mailings have the name of my lender, my name/address, and the EXACT loan amount that I took out (after down payment/closing costs).
Is this public info somehow? Or do I need to have a serious chat with my lender for selling my personal information?
And another non related question - we’re in a new subdivision, and some GPS systems/map systems can’t find our address. Google has it right, but no one else. Any way to get my address in all the systems out there?
p.s. You guys gave me some excellent suggestions a few months ago when I posted about it!
- 16 comments, 38 replies
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It probably was part of the small print… That happens a lot.
As for the map updates, there are different companies that provide map data to GPS manufacturers. So there is no one stop to report to everyone.
How to report to Bing
How to report to Navteq
Plus there must be others I can’t think of right now.
But keep in mind GPS devices don’t just update instantly. Changes go through a verifying process, which is then implemented and then is released usually quarterly. Some GPS companies charge for map updates, some come with free lifetime maps.
@ELUNO Thanks - I updated both of those, and the Navteq update was surprisingly difficult to figure out… weird system
Gee, I don’t want anyone to find me.
@Barney I only want packages to find me
@Barney I think your street address is
1 Purple Way
But I don’t know the City, State or Zip Code.
@sligett Just follow the yellow brick road to the purple house.
@Barney
Follow The Yellow Brick Road!
And I must add these, because the brainless and iineffectual Scarecrow is my Role Model:
According to the first video, which I consider to be Word Of Doge, if one Follows The Yellow Brick road, ins is, necessarily, Off To See The Wizard: The Wonderful Wizard Of Oz!
So I suppose, every time you arrive home, you wind up watching the Oz film, which makes me wish I had a yellow brick road of my own.
Doge says you must!
/giphy Doge says so
@luvche21
The company that approved your mortgage, the company the services your mortgage, and your actual lender and probably separate businesses. And there will be a few other companies with your mortgage info.
This has become a notoriously corrupt and dishonest industry, and remains so, even after several reforms.
The book “Chain of Title”, about the mortgage industry’s habit of ignoring state real property title laws and then counterfeiting documents to cover their tracks, can tell you a bit about how is “works”. (Or doesn’t work.)
One of the companies that is involved in your mortgage did this. You may not even be able to find out whi those companies are, without a lot of research.
Mortgages are a mainstay of our personal lives and our economy. I really hope this problem, as bad as it is, is the worst experience you have with them.
@f00l Ug, I didn’t even think about the title company giving out that info to.
This makes me more sad than it probably should… I didn’t sign up for giving out personal info like that
Make sure the post office has added your address to the route. In my area this can take a longer than you would think.
Realty transfers are listed in our local newspaper and online. The purchase amount is included. New residents get many local ads delivered after it is published.
@speediedelivery
The purchase amount is part of public record in Texas, but the mortgage amount and payment schedule should be as confidential as all other personal financial data. One hopes.
@speediedelivery @f00l but it’s not the purchase amount that’s showing up, it’s the loan amount after my down payment. I can see purchase amount being public info, but the loan amount and who my lender is?
@luvche21 That’s likely because the mortgage was recorded for the actual dollar amount that loan covered. Your down payment was not part of the amount that was actually lent to you. (Speaking here on my own personal borrowing history; YMMV.)
It starts at the assessor’s office. The title companies that report this information are the very ones that can also resell this information.
@luvche21
If the spam mails include the price of the property, that’s public info. Once your county assessor site updates, that will be on the web tax assessor site.
The same way after you buy a car you get spammed by expended warranty companies who buy that info from your state.
If the spam mail includes specific mortgage info, then at least one of the many companies who have their claws in your mortgage is to beware of.
What is public varies somewhat by state.
@f00l I mentioned this above (after you wrote this), but it’s the loan amount (after my down payment was subtracted from the purchase price), so it’s definitely one of the companies I worked with
@luvche21 What we need here is Super Woman (aka @magiccave), who has recent experience (albeit retired now).
While we’re waiting (and I hope like crazy that’s the correct name on meh for her), which kind of institution was your loan through?
My money’s on 3, or perhaps 1, and I’ll be surprised to hear it was a credit union. Would you also be willing to name which state you are in (has an effect on precisely what is in public records)?
I’ll be back much later, but I’m interested in this.
Please, if I got her handle wrong, would someone else please invoke Magic Cave?
@Shrdlu @magic_cave
@luvche21 It often comes from documents that have to be filed with the [whatever official office your city/county/state has]. The recording of a deed is indeed public record. Whether the info is actually sold or whether a real person accesses the info on behalf of a third party depends on a lot of stuff, none of which is germane here. About all you can do is shrug, though, since if it’s public record, it’s public.
In my county, among the things that are “recorded” by law are deeds, divorces, name-changes, liens, notices of evictions, and a whole slew of other stuff.
I still receive snail-mail advertising using my name and address from a mortgage I closed on in 1977. It’s easy to tell, since I haven’t used the name on the mortgage and deed since 1989.
tl;dr: It’s almost a certainty that whatever info folks are using to send you email or snail-mail was obtained lawfully from public records.
HTH.
@Shrdlu Seriously flattering you are today, said Yoda Cave.
@Shrdlu I’m in Utah, using option #3 from your list.
@magic_cave and @Shrdlu, would my loan amount and lender be in public records associated with my name? and address?
I can see the sale price of the property being there, but I would assume (maybe naively?) that the loan amount (after subtracting my down payment) would be listed.
I guess I’ll have to shrug and get over it (or rather put up with receiving spam for the next 50 years…), but it sure does feel like an invasion especially when the letters that come (3 in the last 2 days) look extremely deceiving saying things like “this is your last mortgage notice” on the outside of the envelope.
@luvche21 The document that was filed would include both your name, your address, and the lender’s name and address. Think for just a moment what we’re talking about here. It’s a document saying that Party A has loaned Party B a certain sum of money and that Party B is using real property at a particular address as the collateral for the loan. There’s no way (excluding tedious, expensive methods) not to include the information you’re concerned about.
If it’s any consolation, the amount of mail I used to receive from the recorded mortgage trickled down to maybe 15-20 in a year or so. And actually, we’re no longer getting any of it – we paid the mortgage off [happy dance] in June. Every time I open my online account records I get to see the loan zeroed out and noted as PAID OFF, and I get one of LIfe’s finer little feelings.
@magic_cave Thanks for the info, and that makes sense. I still want to be upset at these spammers though, so please don’t take that away from me
And I super can’t wait for that awesome paid off feeling… in another 30 years!!
@luvche21 I do want to point out that, even if the mail you’re receiving is attempting to confuse you, and is filled with double talk, and false information, it isn’t spam, and the senders aren’t spammers. That would be applicable to email. If they’re sending you these things via email, then you actually have legal actions you may take.
Unfortunately, consumer protections against junk mail are not nearly so good. I will happily spend my time (especially during that time of day when I’m drinking my first cup of coffee, and am oh, so unpleasant) calling these folks up, and doing my best to keep them on the line as long as possible. Phone calls are very expensive, and this has helped me to be removed from some lists.
You said that your loan was not through a bank or credit union, and you should know that it’s possible that it may be sold to someone else who will actually do the servicing of it, at which time you’re going to receive junk mail all over again.
You should, right now, find the customer service number for your loan, and tell them you want your privacy settings changed (or whatever they want to call it), such that they do not share your personal information beyond those things which they’re legally bound to do.
The best option you have is just to shred each piece that has your name or personal info on it, and recycle the rest. If you have the time, you can call each person up and ask them to remove you from their list.
Following what @Shrdlu said, I guarantee (from working in a couple call centers) you can pretty much get yourself removed from their list by just calling, saying, “please remove me from your mailing list”. Give them the basic info (usually name/address. Since you’re already getting shit from them, they already have it. Most places require at least that to “verify your identity”, which is actually BS because anyone could be (and often is) reading it off the letter.) and once they launch into whatever spiel, repeat “Please remove me from your list and remove my information from your system”. If they try the spiel again, say, “No thanks, remove me from your list and remove my information from your system.” etc. Repeat that last step until they say they’re removing you. Most call centers have that kind of process. It might not be worth your effort as those kinds of lists are often sold to quite a few people at once, but… worth trying if you’re that pissed about it.
@luvche21 It just occurred to me (Just In Case You (folks in general, not you specifically) Didn’t Know) that with a new mortgage you’re in an excellent position to shorten the life of your mortgage by several years, thus saving yourself literally thousands of dollars in interest cost.
Check with whoever holds your mortgage and ask how you make a “principal-only” payment. In any given month, make a principal-only payment in whatever amount you feel you can afford. It might be safer to make it as a separate payment, to help avoid errors in how it should be posted. Ten dollars, $25, $37… whatever you can afford, use it.
We did a re-fi once, long ago, and just by tossing $25-$50 at the mortgage whenever we could we cut the life of the mortgage from 15 years to 12.
More Just In Case You (again, folks in general, not you specifically) Didn’t Know: Depending on how you purchase a car, you can often do the same principal-only trick with the same end result of great saving on interest. (But do this only if you know there’s a saving in it for you. A lot of less-than-ethical auto financers calculate the total interest you’d pay on the full loan, add that sum to the purchase price, and then divide it all by the number of months the loan is written for, which means you’re not going to save anything by making extra payments. Don’t finance there again, ever.)
@magic_cave we’ve just been looking into this too, thanks for the reminder!
When I looked into it, something like an extra $100 a month would shorten our 30 year loan to 23 years. That’s pretty awesome! I don’t think we can do an extra $100 every month though…
@Shrdlu I’m working on this now - hopefully that will help changing our privacy settings.
I don’t know if I would go as far as calling each of them as you and @Jamileigh17 mentioned. Unless I keep getting them from the same company or something. I always feel like if I call they’ll send more things or sell my info to someone else knowing that I’m a real person and all…
I cannot speak for other jurisdictions, but here in NYC all mortgages and deeds must be recorded and become public documents. NYC uses a system called ACRIS to maintain the records.
Using ACRIS, anyone can look up the deed, mortgage(s), tax records, water bills, etc. for any property in the city. These things are not private information.
There are ways to hide ones ownership of property, and other than noting that buying with all cash won’t do it (though doing that would probably stop those selling mortgage insurance from bothering you). I’ll leave finding these methods as an exercise to the reader.
@baqui63
In some counties and jurisdictions, persons can petition to have personal info removed from these records if they can make a cause that it’s in the public interest, or if their safety is at risk.
So info might be removed for public officials, police officers, stalking victims, and similar. I think it’s case-by-case, never automatic, at least locally.
Other ways people get their public info off the cords is to xfer the title to another legal entity such as a trust or LLC. This involved a new closing, and if there is a lien, the lender must agree.
In the case that started the thread, any of these actions would be like deciding to close the barn door after the horse already ran away.
In some states, the mortgage amount must be part of the public record. Companies purchase perpetual subscriptions to these records from the state or county.
@f00l Yep. I was aware of everything you wrote here.
Check with your local county Tax Assessor. Most real estate property has the location, name of owner, and estimated value (either what it sold for, or is appraised at- depending on how long you have been in your home). You can also look up your neighbors, to see what their estimated home values are- to see if you paid more or less for property in your area.
@PrincessSuzuki and that’s the exact info that I would expect to be public, but the info that’s showing up in these mailings has the actual loan amount (sale price of home minus down payment). That’s the part that’s got me scratching my head at this.
@luvche21 Here, mortgages are public documents and copies of them (with some info redacted) are available online to anyone.
A suggestion: do some searching on the web for your administrative division (town, county, city, state, whatever) and see how one does a public records search, If the service you find wants money, you’ve probably not found what you want. Domain names ending in .gov or .state.us are the ones you want.
Do some searching and see what is available.
If you want to mention your location (town, whatever), I’ll be glad to do the search for you. (If you want, feel free to email me… username here @gmail.com.)
It is all public info through the assessors office. Anyone can look up your name, address, date of purchase and purchase price. There is no way to stay
Incognito unless you incorporate and have the co buy the property…bUT then if someone wants to take the time to look up the company principal they can find you. Sorry!
@tinamarie1974 Note that purchase price is not the same as mortgage amount; I think that’s the value being questioned as public vs. private info
@compunaut Exactly, thanks for pointing that out. It seems to have gotten lost here
i recall receiving solicitation mail with my mortgage amount included here in MI for many years, it hadn’t concerned me until now.
/youtube internet self diagnosis
My loan officer actually pointed out the paperwork that allowed him to sell my info to other companies. He said that was part of the way he get’s paid (we all know he gets a commission for acquiring my loan for a bank). Since he told me up front and I liked the process I signed it.
Don’t worry. The mortgage insurance folks will give up after a few months. Small price to pay for the satisfaction of owning a home (well, owning the loan for the home).
Congrats brother.
@Ezlpo Yeah, maybe he just didn’t point that out at the signing with the title company.
The home sure is awesome though!
@luvche21 We are in the exact same situation in Louisiana after closing on our home last month. As soon as we were pre-approved for the mortgage, junk mail about mortgages started coming in. Seemingly the day after closing, all this shady mail about those mortgage insurance offers started coming in. Some of them take careful inspection to actually determine that it’s some kind of offer and not something official.
I suspect that the information comes from public records mostly because our lender is also a friend, although the actual bank behind the mortgage may still be suspect for selling the information. I believe part of what we signed with the title company was privacy related, basically stating that he couldn’t share our information except what was required to be recorded, but I could be wrong and am not going to dig out the closing documents right now. I do know that we had to sign releases allowing the lender to share information with our agent, and so it follows that the information shared with the lender is at least somewhat protected by privacy regulations. (ETA after reading the post above: maybe that was a ruse to provide a false sense of protection).
I have noticed a common factor in this junk mail. If we see “Lender: <our lender>” on the line above our address through the window of one of those too-official looking envelopes and the letter is not from one of the companies we dealt with for the mortgage, it gets destroyed.
USPS’ last remaining purpose… Rain or shine, deliver spam!
It was the company that is servicing your mortgage. Call them up and tell them not to share your information with 3rd parties. It took a few months after calling but it finally stopped the 4-5 a week scamming red labeled “Mortgage Notice Open Immediately” letters we were receiving in the mail. Everything from mortgage “insurance”, home warranties, and even mail from more legitimate big name companies trying to sell us homeowners insurance.
I know for a fact that CenturyLink sold my info a while back because last time I moved they were the only ones I had given my address to yet when I started receiving junk mail there with my name on it.
On the other hand, congratulations on the house. I just put an offer last night on what will hopefully be my first, so I might be joining you in newhomeownership soon too.
@Al_Coholic
The post office may sell the info also, unless you tell them not to. As may any utilities you deal with. As may your landlord, esp if a Corp landlord. Can be diff to pin the guilty party down.
@f00l Living with roommates in a house owned by family, with everything else under their names, so no one else had my address at the time.
@Al_Coholic Good luck on getting that offer accepted! Exciting times!!
@luvche21 Thanks! It was actually accepted over the weekend. Going to the inspection today.
@luvche21 Or rather, they counter-offered pretty close to my offer and I accepted it.
@Al_Coholic Nice! Congrats!
@Al_Coholic
Great, congrats! New, very very expensive hobby you can live in. Yeah!
Pretty sure that mortgage information is available from your local court house.
@pellucid And if you’re rich enough, straight from the real estate pages of the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/11/realestate/multimillion-dollar-homes-in-the-clouds.html?ribbon-ad-idx=5&rref=realestate
Here we learn the seller’s name, the price of the unit and the monthly maintenance charges. We also learn which Realtors were involved and the apparent name of the happy new buyer.
Sheesh.