Any bourbon drinkers up in here?

@tnhillbillygal
/image maker’s mark cask strength

@tnhillbillygal Regular Maker’s is supposed to be decent, but I’m kind a looking for a bit higher up on the top shelf. Maybe Maker’s 46, or the Cask Strength @medz pictured.

@medz @ruouttaurmind @tnhillbillygal I drink a lot of bourbon, and I don’t like Makers 46 at all. Way over oaked, and kinda harsh tasting.

@shahnm I just read several similar comments about Cask Strength. Too much alcohol content and too much front end flavor.

@ruouttaurmind @shahnm @tnhillbillygal
/youtube oakey afterbirth

@therealjrn okay but what if it was ＣＯＬＡ that you usually drank?

@therealjrn Excellent point. However if you usually drank the store brand, Pepsi would be a good gift, wouldn’t it?

@ruouttaurmind @Moose Is Gentleman Jack the equivalent of store brand cola?

@therealjrn …is coke?

@Moose This is a weird place for a gang war to flare up.

@Moose @therealjrn Maybe a better analogy: If you drive a Volvo, wouldn’t a Mercedes still be a decent gift?

@therealjrn Also, your initial assertion is flawed because Pepsi is the nectar of the gods and therefore always makes an excellent gift.

@ruouttaurmind
/giphy ew

@ruouttaurmind

Maybe a better analogy: If you drive a Volvo, wouldn’t a Mercedes still be a decent gift?

No. Volvo owners are only slightly less eccentric (particular?) than Saab owners… although, all three brands tend to be ugly/funky.

@Moose @therealjrn So… bellies or strips?

@troy @ruouttaurmind Angels Envy is nice. Aged in port wine barrels, so it’s got that little extra something. Plus its a pretty, giftable type bottle.
You can also find Glenlivet in that price range. They usually come in sort of tasters selection with small bottles of 12, 15, and 18 years in a gift box around this time too.

@LeviOhPlz @troy Isn’t (or at least wasn’t) Angeles Envy sourced? Did they start distilling their own?

@metaphore Excellent idea. I actually tried this first, but no luck. There are a couple local bottlers, but it’s that same old liquor industry dirty little secret: sourced. KBD for both labels.

@metaphore my dad loves Jack daniels. I bought him a bottle of gentlemen Jack (he loves that too) and I almost bought the one you mentioned.

His friends from Sweden brought him some from there that he thought was excellent. It was written it Swedish so I don’t know the name but it was in a red box.

@ivannabc @metaphore yay, Jack, even if it isn’t the ideal fit here.

/google Best Bourbon
15 Best Bourbon Whiskeys You Can Buy in 2018 • Gear Patrol
https://gearpatrol.com/2017/12/22/best-bourbon-whiskey/

@shahnm
I second Blantons!

@shahnm @ruouttaurmind Agreed! Blanton’ s can be hard to find but it’s a great gift idea, especially if this will be a repeat gift… Each bottle comes with a stopper representing a horse racer, 8 different ones to get the collection which also spells out Blantons. There are 2 different "N"s…

@fantomeye Old Weller is good stuff.

@fantomeye I second that - Eagle Rare is always my favorite - very smooth.

@haydesigner My advice (from personal experience…) is to never impose a scotch on a committed bourbon drinker without permission. They get… awkward.

@haydesigner @shahnm
Seconded. It’s like chugging from a bottle and then handing it to your buddy and asking them “How is the finish on this backwash?”

@medz A couple tugs of Budweiser will get me plenty drunk. 🥴

@Shrdlu Did you get your free xmas socks from makers mark? I did!
https://www.makersmark.com/ambassadors

@medz @Shrdlu Best ambassador gift ever!

@medz @shahnm @Shrdlu just registered. Mehbe next year!

@marklog I agree with pretty much everything you said. I liked Angel’s Envy when I first tried it, but never bought another bottle. I do have a bottle of their rye that I liked even more. Based on your recommendations, it sounds like you might enjoy my favorite of the bourbons I’ve recently bought: Old Forester 1920. Retails around $60, but can be found for $55 or less. My wife doesn’t really drink bourbon, but she tried a lot of them on our recent trip to Kentucky. She really liked the Woodford Double Oaked, and now she says the OF 1920 is her favorite. Bourbon drinkers and non-bourbon drinkers seem to universally enjoy it. I was pretty surprised that she liked it so much, since it’s 115 proof, and she typically didn’t like the higher proof bourbons, but this one doesn’t seem like it’s 115 proof. Very easy to drink. The bottle/label also just looks really good on the shelf, which is nice for a gift. That’s my recommendation for you if you haven’t tried it yet, and for anyone looking for a gift in that price range. Now I need to try the 1910.

@warpedrotors I dig anything OF. My brother’s favorite of all time is the Birthday Bourbon, which neither of us can afford.

@marklog @warpedrotors Haven’t tried the Angel’s Envy but someone who works for me gave me a bottle of Woodford Reserve a couple of Christmases ago. (Sidenote 1: major suck-up) (Sidenote 2: is that really the plural of Christmas?) It’s become my favorite “everyday” bourbon that I actually drink a couple of times a month. I like others for special celebrations (Pappy) but they are way out the price point being discussed.

@LocoTimo Go for the single barrel Eagle Rare, it is a far superior product.

@ivannabc I appreciate that, but they would be unable to ship liquor into my state. Wine, yes, spirits, no.

@f00l Most bottlers who do not distill their own do not usually disclose that in an easy to find location. Most distillers who bottle their own brand usually proudly display the origin of their product.

So the first clue is to check the bottler’s website info. If they neglect to mention where the product is distilled, that’s a clue that a bit more research is required. I don’t know if there is some requirement of disclosure on labels, but some labels do identify as a sourced product.

Industry awards are another clue. If a product claims to have awards, checking in which category they were awarded is a big fat clue. Also industry review sites are generally quick to disclose sourced product.

Not that a sourced product is a bad product… several sourced liquors and wines are reported to be great. But generally speaking, a sourced product in a fancy bottle with an expensive marketing campaign is more costly than other labels from the same source provider for what is basically the same product. Often times this can mean paying 2x or 3x more for the same swill. When you’re talking about a $20 bottle of wine, that can mean paying $60 for the same grape.

An example of fancy marketing of a corporate sourced bourbon is Willett Pot. For over 30 years Willett sourced their Pot Still Reserve, bottled it in that unique bottle, played on the history of the Willett name and sold a product they did not distill at a premium price. Eventually they did build their own distillery and began creating most of their own product, but for 30 years their customers were paying $60 a bottle. Although a premium sourced product (this in the days when JD and JB were less than $10 a fifth) it was the same premium product bottled by other labels for 1/2 the price.

@f00l Generally, the bottle will say “distilled by” or “distilled and bottled by” or “distilled, aged, and bottled by” whatever distillery. If the bottle doesn’t have the “distilled by” statement, it’s probably sourced. If not distilled by the bottler, it will sometimes say where it was distilled. I have a bottle of Widow Jane, which just says “Kentucky bourbon bottled by Widow Jane Distillery Brooklyn, NY.” They source it from wherever in Kentucky, add water from their Widow Jane Mine in Rosendale, NY, and bottle it. I don’t know who actually makes it, but it’s pretty good, and probably more expensive than it should be.

@ruouttaurmind

Most bottlers who do not distill their own do not usually disclose that in an easy to find location. Most distillers who bottle their own brand usually proudly display the origin of their product.

You mentioned that you rarely drink.

So what moved you to learn so much about what makes for good bourbon that’s not just “fancy marketed and packaged” to justify a higher price?

Did your friend get you into this knowledge, or were you just curious on your own?
(As you do not personally consume the product?)

@f00l Since it’s a product I have no previous experience with, I started shopping by doing my due diligence. Trying to learn the terminology and what makes a $50 or $100 bottle worth 5x or 10x more than a basic bottle of JD or Jim Beam.

I still don’t quite understand why a $100 bottle of Gentleman Jack is worth 10x the price of regular JD. Some higher quality ingredients and a more laborious distilling process, sure. But I imagine there’s a bit of manufactured prestige in the mix as well.

@ruouttaurmind

Re wine ratings:
(I read stuff re this next critique/history of wine ratings in several places, both in books re data, perception, and probability, and in articles re wine trends. I am no wine expert. Not at all.)

It has become popular in wine mags, books, and blogs to rate on a 100 point scale.
For some reason, the numeric rating appeals far more to readers and buyers than, for instance, a rating system does.

Only, do you really believe even the most dedicated and talented wine expert can reliably distinguish in different blind tastings between similar 89 point and 90 point wines?

Can they do so reliably?
(Data suggest they can, with labels shown, and absolutely cannot, with blind tastings.)

Can they do so “objectively” (in the sense of agreement among themselves?
(sort of)

“Objectively” in the sense of personal and industry agreement, given truly blind tastings?
(Data suggests, no way)

But a wine rating of 89 vs a rating of 90 can mean enormous differences in bottle price. A sustained rating in the 90’s can mean huge money for a winery.

Big wine names (famously, big Bordeaux names) means Tiffany pricing for decades upon decades of vintages.

And yet … Similarly grown and made wines from nearby regions costing 1/4 or 1/10 if the big price are sometimes confused with the big name $$$$$ wines in blind tastings.

Thus esp matters in France and other areas which legally limit some wine naming or discriptive terms by region or other technical limiters. The name on one side of a regional boundary can skyrocket what people will pay, compared to a vineyard rather close across the boundary.

So much of this is traditional reputation and groupthink.
And the rose by any other name does not smell as sweet, due to human expectation and prejudice mattering as much or more as objective factors do.

With distilled spirits, I suspect, tradition, expectation, reputation, packaging and presentation, and marketing are enormous price factors.
Perhaps these are also primary factors in the perception of quality and enjoyment of the spirit.

I guess the way you went, looking for facts and info on who produces their own product vs who markets someone else’s, is a good a place to start as any.

? I would be a bit flummoxed in your situation. I would have to ask for assistance.

I also rarely drink, and so have little sense of ongoing personal standards and prefs

(beyond liking single-malt non-sourced scotches.
I like them so much, I drink some at least twice a decade. )

@f00l The whole topic is so subjective to the consumer’s palate it’s very difficult for me to select what is “good bourbon” for someone else.

@therealjrn brought up the subject of colas. And at the end of the day he’s right. It doesn’t matter how much I enjoy Pepsi, an avid Coke drinker isn’t going to appreciate that icy, bubbly cold glass of Pepsi as much as they would Coke. They may find it refreshing, but still not their preferred option.

For the bourbon, I gave in and spent the big bucks on Gentleman Jack even though I’m not convinced there is actual value in the product to justify the higher price. As long as my friend finds it a more pleasurable experience, that’s what really mattered. Just like the Cuban cigars his daughter brings him. I’m not a smoker, and I doubt they are really better than others, but if the prestige and rareness enhances his cigar experience, that’s what matters.

@ruouttaurmind @therealjrn

Sounds like the $ you spent will make him happy.

You obviously value him and his experiences. Your gift seems directed to give pleasure within his own values of taste.

Altho too bad you couldn’t guarantee cost/taste value, otherwise am excellent gift.

: )

@Kawa Try the 10 year! Favorite bourbon for around $40.

@ruouttaurmind Where are you located? I should’ve asked that hours ago.

@ruouttaurmind So Coke was the best answer?

I win!

@therealjrn Coke was the most convenient answer anyway.

@marklog Metro Phoenix area.

@accumulator Japanese whiskey’s are phenomenal, so it’s not surprising that they would figure out the “secret sauce” to making a great bourbon. I’ll look for it someday. Thanks for the tip!

@accumulator Holy grammar fail! I was wondering if the whiskey should be spelled with or without the ‘e’, and somehow a rogue apostrophe got in there…

@accumulator @shahnm Wut a graveyous misstake.