American Apparel (still) bankrupt
4Stock up on the shirts meh. Or don’t and wait for them to be blown out for pennies on the dollar so you can sell us shirts for $1 again.
This brings up an ongoing discussion I’ve had with some friends. Is it truly possible to bring back this kind of manufacturing on a large scale in the United States. Are people willing to work for wages low enough to make goods manufactured here affordable? If they can’t be made at costs somewhat close to imported products, are people willing (and able) to pay the extra money for US made products?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2016/11/14/american-apparel-chapter-11-bankruptcy/93788450/
- 9 comments, 28 replies
- Comment
To answer your last question, for me it would depend on the product.
@PlacidPenguin Are you willing to pay $10 for a basic t-shirt when you can get one of slightly lower quality for $3?
@cinoclav Wholesale, more like $5 vs. $3 … but Americans are still too damn cheap. And companies too.
The surcharge for AA vs. Anvil on Amazon Merch is just $1.50, yet, a fair number of the artists I see using that platform opt for the cheaper Anvil.
And some folks dislike AA’s extreme-left social agenda too – because a company paying $15/hour to factory workers, offering health care, and supporting equal rights goes against their own values.
@cinoclav
If there’s a $7 difference, probably not.
If the difference would be $2 as stated by @narfcake, then probably.
@narfcake - It’s not ALWAYS a matter of being cheap. I usually pay more for a better quality item.
Like I said, it depends on the product.
@narfcake And the crazy thing is that states will make great concessions to bring in manufacturing from foreign countries, but not the same concessions to keep an American company operating.
@rockblossom Sometimes, those tax breaks to lure new companies are money losing propositions:
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2013/04/16/film-tax-credits-dont-give-states-an-economic-boost
In any case, there’s no clear-cut answer when it comes to the balance of jobs/taxation/social responsibility/shareholder return/etc. But I don’t understand how corporations could make $$$ and still say that the few extra dollars to make something here that’s already profitable is too expensive versus making it somewhere else either.
http://www.marketplace.org/2015/01/28/business/big-book/inside-migration-maytag-factory
@narfcake Y’know, I can’t really imagine any Americans being for someone that doesn’t support equal rights. Oh… wait…
@narfcake It’s not necessarily just about manufacturing costs or wages. Sometimes it’s health care costs, safety regulations, liability insurance, pensions and tax rates, among a long list of others. Also, publicly traded companies have an obligation to shareholders that may outweigh the desire to stay in country. Deciding which companies “deserve” our business is a trip down the rabbit hole into Wonderland.
This is the saddest part of it all, @rockblossom – that for the almighty dollar, individuals and corporations can ignore the responsibility of making sure that manufacturing their stuff doesn’t endanger other lives.
This didn’t have to happen …
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-32956705
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Savar_building_collapse
@rockblossom A few more dollars on a scale of thousands or millions of products manufactured is no longer just a few more dollars. It is the goal of businesses to maximize profit, thus to willingly give up money by choosing higher production costs is, in most circumstances, diametrically opposed to this goal.
Good question. I only buy American made products for my dog. He’s a purist (actually I just worry about the materials used to make pet products in less litigious countries than ours). I only buy Hondas, Japanese cars although parts of them are made in the US, Canada, and Mexico. I buy almost all the components for my jewelry making hobby business directly from India and China. Indians are the stone cutters for the world, and the Chinese are masters of tiny component manufacturing. If I bought these things locally they’d still have been made there and I’d just be paying a handling upcharge for them. I can’t imagine US manufacturers being able to competitively price these items, and the raw stones would still have to be imported from wherever the Earth provides them. There are also a lot of crops that are exceedingly difficult to grow anywhere in the US other than Hawaii, and the land they’ll grow on is too valuable for other uses. Things like shoes and clothing I’d be willing to buy American if they were of comparable quality and not more than 25% more expensive. Another consideration, some border cities are much closer to neighboring producers. The closest major US city to us is 250 miles away, whereas the closest Mexican city is 30 feet away. Importing fruits and veggies from Mexico is just sensible for us.
Paging @narfcake…
@ACraigL
He’s aware of this thread.
If Gildan is going to purchase them, then that’s yet more consolidation in that industry. They already bought Anvil in 2012 …
I absolutely will buy fewer of a given thing and/or wait longer to acquire the funds for a given thing if that means said thing is of domestic manufacture.
@brhfl But what if your choice is between an American company that manufactures the product in a foreign country; and a foreign company that actually manufactures the product in the USA? (My New Balance sneakers were made in Viet Nam, while my Mephistos were made in Kentucky. Go figure.)
@rockblossom This was a huge discussion I had with a friend who is very much ‘buy American’ when it comes to cars. My personal opinion is, I’m buying what I like regardless of where it’s made. A car is too large an investment to base my decisions solely on where it’s from. Oddly enough, up until my current CX-5 (made in Japan), all my previous foreign cars were built in the U.S. My friend has always insisted on buying American cars and worked for Ford for a good while. However, he bought a Fiesta that was made in Mexico. My argument is that given the option, I’d rather buy a car being assembled here, therefore providing jobs to Americans. He was perfectly fine with having just paid Mexicans when the profits were going back to an American company. It makes for an interesting difference in viewpoints. To note, he’s very conservative, I’m definitely not.
@rockblossom That’s certainly tricky, and not something that comes up often for me personally, but I think I tend to err toward what @cinoclav said - I’d rather support the domestic manufacture jobs. There are a lot of facets… aside from supporting a more local economy - what are the labor laws like in a given country of origin? What are the environmental laws like? So on… It’s not so much an ‘America, fuck yeah!’ thing for me; though I understand it is for many.
@cinoclav The only truly American car is Tesla, and even they use some parts made out of country. The next is Toyota, 75% of the parts are made in the US, and the car is assembled here. The most “American” Chevrolet is about %56 percent manufactured in the US, and assembled here. Having worked for Chevy, I can tell you that you could easily spot a Mexican built car. Besides usually having 30+fault codes when they came in (as opposed to maybe 10 on a US built) the body fitment was garbage.
As a side note to this, for quite a few years now, all my jeans have been purchase from Texas Jeans – 100% USA made (in North Carolina).
@narfcake I could never even begin to think about buying jeans sight unseen. I have a horrible time buying most pants as it is. And I have to say, it bugs the hell out of me that Texas Jeans are made in North Carolina.
@cinoclav It was blind faith the first time I ordered, but they worked out for me perfectly.
The same could never be said about Levi’s these days; different style? Different origin. Different color? Different origin. Different size? Different origin. The only thing consistent about Levi’s these days is that they aren’t made in the USA.
@cinoclav Texas Pete is also from North Carolina.
@narfcake Wow, and they’re $30. Seems hard to find a decent pair of jeans for that price anymore, even with overseas manufacture. I know North Carolina also has a boutique jeans company, but they’re $200+.
I would still want to try them on before buying, but Asheboro is only about an hour west.
@narfcake I wish they had colors other than black and bright blue. I usually buy a darker jean with more of a navy hue.
@narfcake
Texas Jeans are made in NC. Huh.
What, would no one buy “North Carolina Jeans”?
Fucking fakes and job thieves and marketers.
For what it’s worth I never understood why American Apparel kept their retail operations going after their first bankruptcy, in my mind the wholesale sector was always the better option for them.
@jbartus I never understood their marketing. Those weird adds with the underdressed, unnatractive, anorexic people lounging around in these hovels, it made no sense. At least use attractive anorexic people, jeez…
@givemeyoursoul the worst part was trying to sell their products as an imprintables company. We literally had to photograph every single product of theirs we wanted to sell because we had an online design tool and needed flat frontal and rear shots of the products, they believed their products looked best on models and would not provide photographs of the products not being worn by models.
In spite of how Woot ended up, I actually feel Amazon would be the most viable in purchasing AA because of their cash flow and market share.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN14O281
@narfcake for Amazon it’d probably be a bit of a coup, being able to reduce costs further for their Shirt.Woot and Amazon Mech imprinting businesses.
shakes his head at American Apparel
110 Retail Stores and Manufacturing in California… and I bet they wonder why they couldn’t make it work…
@jbartus Even if it’s not reducing cost on that end, it’s having a huge audience that could boost the sales at the retail level. Made in the USA was AA’s selling point before, and it still can be today.
https://www.internetretailer.com/2014/10/06/new-formula-sales-amazoncom-and-made-usa
@narfcake I’m not sure Amazon needs help in that department but they would definitely corner the market on retail sales of American Apparel products
@jbartus They probably don’t, but AA has huge brand awareness and buying them may be the path of least resistance as Amazon expands their apparel offerings.
http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-owns-7-private-label-fashion-brands-2016-2
The big gets bigger …
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-americanapparel-bidders-bankruptcy-idUSKBN14U1EJ
(Just as I thought …)
“American Apparel’s ‘made in U.S.’ heritage uncertain after deal”
@narfcake
Done deal…
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-american-apparel-20170111-story.html