I dunno where I first saw this; I’m just putting it here so I don’t lose it.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/hannahjewell/historical-women-who-gave-no-fcks?utm_term=.mvVdGpaoD#.eoQon03xD
I just know the fondness of folks here for that word, and thought I’d share…
Many of the comments go on to name many more.
Now, while I’m still thinking about it…
Quite a while ago, over on that site now vanished from our ken, I posted a video. Who knew I wouldn’t remember to save the link. It’s by a singer whose name I cannot remember (because I’ve tried all morning), and when I describe him, someone here is bound to recognize him.
The video I’d posted was the celebration of his life after he’d passed away, with him singing “Somewhere over the rainbow” as the soundtrack of it. He was Hawaiian, extremely large, and had an incredibly sweet voice. I wanted to listen to it, today, and went looking for the link.
Nope, not there. Not there either. Not even there. Not even under the rug in the living room. At least I found the Buzzfeed link (serendipity strikes again) while I was looking, so that’s something.
@Shrdlu ?
@ELUNO Thank you. More than you can know.
@ELUNO I love this song but it always makes me think of Dr. Greene from ER, so it’s triply sad ;_;
@Shrdlu Amazon Prime has three playlists that include his music, and three of his albums are available to stream. He’s also on several other albums.
@OldCatLady
Thx
@OldCatLady Sure, and I appreciate your thoughtfulness. I was specifically looking for the youtube presented (although I swear the one I remembered differed slightly). Who knew I’d lose all sorts of things when Deals bit the dust?
@HemlockTea It makes me tear up every time it starts to play when I put my music on shuffle. I can’t listen to it when I’m driving. It was sad enough before they played that when Dr. Greene died. Now it’s really sad.
@HemlockTea same
In case you didn’t know yet, his name was Israel Kamakawiwo’ole, but his friends just called him IZ.
@Pavlov
Not quite a leader in the moral, technical, legal, and social senses as those on the list above, still worth a look:
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One who clearly didn’t Give A Fuck while fucking more or less everyone interesting who walked by, very much on her own terms, try
Jane Elizabeth Digby, Lady Ellenborough (1807-1881)
In an age of aristocratic dalliances and affairs played by gossipy court rules and rigid expectations about public conduct and respectability (in complete contrast to the bed-hopping of many private lives), she followed a life of adventure and exploration while being open about her choices instead of playing the socialite “appearances and customs” game.
Wikipedia: “She had four husbands and many lovers, including King Ludwig I of Bavaria, his son King Otto of Greece, statesman Felix Schwarzenberg, and a Greek brigand general (Christodoulos Hatzipetros). She died in Damascus, Syria, as the wife of Arab Sheikh Medjuel el Mezrab, who was 20 years her junior.”
She tended to break off from men who were not serious, who were unfaithful, or who demanded she live by pretense. She never saw herself as being owned by the customs of her time and class, or by the demand that she live in the public appearance of propriety and not choose her own path.
She was fluent in at least 9 languages, traveled Europe as she pleased with little concern for “society”, played a significant role as an insurgent in the Greek War of Independance against the Ottoman Empire, living in caves and plotting strategy (this war meant that Prince Philip was suitable for Princess Elizabeth a century later), and Jane Digby finally settled down happily to a Bedouin life traveling and horsebreeding in Syria with her last husband.
She was considered incredibly scandalous in a scandalous age (the notoriously promiscuous Regency and pre-Victorian England).
She lived such a life of freedom in an era and society famous for its dalliances that even in the 1930’s she was Not To Be Mentioned To The Children, who all knew about her anyway, and copped all the hidden books and letters out of the library.
And Jane Digby’s taste for living by her own choices almost certainly influenced the life of one family member in a later century.
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Jane Digby was revered by her great-great-niece (if I’ve got it right), the Hon Pamela Digby (1920-1997) who married Randolph Churchill (Winston Churchill’s son) as a war bride barely days after they met (everyone was going to die, so they thought, so fast marriages were common), and then discovered she didn’t like him at all. She then worked thru the war in the Churchill War Room, and had famous wartime affairs with Jock Whitney, Edward R Murrow, various American war generals (rumored), William S Paley, Averell Harriman, and possibly Lord Beaverbrook. (Randolph Churchill had a personality that left wartime London sympathetic to her - which is to say, many people thought him rather drunk, hateful and nasty, which was his reputation throughout his life.)
After the war, and Pamela’s divorce, she “did Europe”, having long relationships with Baron Elie de Rothschild, Prince Aly Khan, Stavros Niarchos, and Gianni Agnelli among others, before deciding to make a 2nd go at the marriage market in America.
Pamela succeeded spectacularly at this, trading up first to Leland Heyward (the very wealthy stage producer of The Sound Of Music) and then to her old flame Averell Harriman (railroad magnate and political devotee). On the way she became a notable socialite and one of Truman Capite’s lesser “swans”. She took American citizenship grew to be an ardent patriot and Washington powerhouse for decades, and died in office as US ambassador to France in her 70’s, at the pinnacle of a life that marked her as “the courtesan of the century”.
So, quite a career (in all senses of the word) for Pamela. She wound up far richer, more famous, and far more powerful and successful than Jane. She no doubt earned her ambassadorship after having been one of the most influential Washingtonians for two decades, and being completely fluent in French and a former French resident for years during her “European period” - which means she already knew everyone, and the French were among her fans.
And yet…she made her way by her stellar capacity to be “everything” to her lovers (excepting Randolph) - to anticipate and arrange all of life for them, and to be completely passionate about their passions, while carefully cutting them away from other family. And thus she changed at once her man, her style, her interests, her passions - all these at each jump. She was notoriously hostile to other family members, grabbing at power and money, and seeing children and siblings as competitors. She was an amazing friend, as long as she did not covet your husband/father/brother. She was noted for being completely faithful to those lovers and husbands who were not mere flings, she took famously incredible care of them, but still planned her upcoming “conquest career” targeting moves years in advance of the need for them.
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Jane, from an earlier era, was not reputedly motivated to go after men for their titles, power, or wealth, tho many such men came after her. In each case the relationships were as much on her her terms as the man’s; she was not “kept” by wealthy lovers except as a visitor or guest for what were not long periods of time for that day; she traveled, adventured, and explored as she pleased, in an age when no other European woman traveled alone on her own terms to such places in such freedom. The risks must have sometimes been incredible. She never compromised who she was or what she wanted for the sake of “getting ahead the old-fashioned way” as Pamela did. And her life story of self-determination in a constricted and dangerous age has a piece of my heart.
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Good bios are available of both Pamela Digby and Jane Digby.
@f00l
PS both were redheads, it runs in that family.
@f00l
I hope this next item doesn’t bother people too much, it has a sight relevance to the two female Digby’s.
The image depicted, the Cerne Abbas Giant, has been carved into the chalk hills in Dorset, England, at least since the 1600’s. It maybe pre-historical or early historic - or it may be a local aristocrat’s satirical depiction of Lord Protector Oliver Cromwell as a would-be Hercules. No one is quite sure of the history. This image is the only “explicit” image permitted on postcards thru the UK post, and this “postal variance” has been allowed for I believe more than a century.
The Giant as carved is approx 180 feet high and 167 feet across. It was created by carving out the earth and filling trenches with chalk stone. The British National Trust owns and maintains it.
Both Jane and Pamela Digby were superb horsewomen from very young childhood, and they both grew up very nearby at the Digby family house, Minterne Magma, one of those way-too-big English country houses.
So this Giant, shown below, was a favorite place to go riding and to jump their ponies and horses a century apart from each other (and a fav of most children in the area to this day.)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerne_Abbas_Giant
An postcard of the Giant from the 1930’s (image is from eBay, so may not stay available)
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A possible source of this hill carving:
Denzil Holles, 1st Baron Holles, may be the mostly likely creator of the giant - no reference mentioning the Giant existed before his time, and the area had been surveyed and no mention made of a hill carving. Baron Hollis owed the land at the time, and had the right character to have undertaken such as construction as a political gesture.
His life is also worth a look.
Baron Holles is as facinating as anyone of English Civil War era. He was a childhood friend of Charles I, and later vehemently opposed the King’s attempt to impose a royal absolute authority. The King’s attempt to arrest him illegally for his conduct in Parliament sparked the English Civil War. He was incendiary during this time in opposing the King’s attempt to be an absolute monarch, and in opposing the King’s attempt to to politicize the Anglican clergy and gut the power of Parliament. He successfully went into battle on the side of Parliament during the hostilities. However, he was more practical than an ideological purist, and long sought negitiation, perhaps guessing that a Roundhead ruler would be not much improvement over a Royal one. He was essentially a moderate, and during the war he opposed Cromwell as ardently as he opposed the King’s forces. He was held in the Tower at least twice, brought before a Star Chamber court, and escaped to France in fear of his life at least twice. He was in France when Cromwell’s forces won and Charles I was executed. He could hardly return to England then, as Cromwell, a fanatic, wanted him jailed or dead also at that time.
During Cromwell’s rule, he was finally allowed back into England, but still spent time in prison on Cromwell’s orders now and then. After Cromwell’s death, he was instrumental in finally negotiating the return of Charles II from exile, and instrumental in bringing Parliament and the King to a new set of terms of coexistence. He spent the rest of his life either as one of the leaders of Parliament, or as an ambassador, or one or another various disagreeable government missions. He is buried in Westminster Abbey.
I wish Baron Hollis’s refusal to be an absolutist had become more of a role model for many in Washington.
@f00l So awesome, adding them to my list of biographies to read!
@HemlockTea
These are good reads.
The connections just kinda flow in weird ways. For instance, Pamela married Leland Hayward, became step-mother to Brooke Hayward, and therefore step-mother-in-law to Dennis Hopper, of all people. And there was I think some kinda family connection to Henry, Jane, and Peter Fonda and to Margaret Sullavan.
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Christopher Ogden
Life of the Party: The Biography of Pamela Digby Churchill Hayward Harriman
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0316633763/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472431409&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=pamela+harriman&dpPl=1&dpID=51MU4l370XL&ref=plSrch
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Sally Bedell Smith
Reflected Glory: Life of Pamela Churchill Harriman
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00G7RANIO/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1472431409&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=pamela+harriman
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Brooke Hayward
Haywire
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0307739597/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1472431409&sr=8-3&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=pamela+harriman&dpPl=1&dpID=51mHD8kmRbL&ref=plSrch
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C. David Heymann
The Georgetown Ladies’ Social Club: Power, Passion, and Politics in the Nation’s Capital
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0743428579/ref=mp_s_a_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1472431799&sr=8-15&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=pamela+harriman&dpPl=1&dpID=51tFZFumHsL&ref=plSrch
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Charlotte Hays
The Fortune Hunters: Dazzling Women and the Men They Married
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000UZPH5I/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1472431869&sr=8-6&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=pamela+harriman
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Slim Keith
Slim: Memories of a Rich and Imperfect Life
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0671631640/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1472431786&sr=8-5&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=pamela+harriman&dpPl=1&dpID=41Vlmu3wU3L&ref=plSrch
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Mary S. Lovell
A Scandalous Life: The Biography of Jane Digby
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1857024699/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472432051&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=jane+digby&dpPl=1&dpID=51WrzYXL9EL&ref=plSrch
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Margaret Fox Schmidt
Passion’s child: The extraordinary life of Jane Digby
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0060138076/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1472432153&sr=8-3&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=jane+digby&dpPl=1&dpID=4198bOphx%2BL&ref=plSrch
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In addition, Jane Digby is the clear original on which numerous characters in 19th century fiction are said to be based. I think her bios and Wikipedia will have more on this.
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Rudy Abramson
Spanning the Century: The Life of W. Averell Harriman, 1891-1986
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0688043526/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472432861&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=averell+harriman&dpPl=1&dpID=51I3odiIk8L&ref=plSrc
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Walter Isaacson and 1 more
The Wise Men: Six Friends and the World They Made
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1476728828/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1472433018&sr=8-2&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=averell+harriman&dpPl=1&dpID=511K8I5hc2L&ref=plSrch
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William Averell Harriman
Special Envoy to Churchill and Stalin, 1941-1946
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0394482964/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1472433018&sr=8-3&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=averell+harriman&dpPl=1&dpID=51sZ0qI4TUL&ref=plSrch
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Joseph E. Persico
Edward R. Murrow: An American Original
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0070494800/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1472433230&sr=8-3&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=edward+r+murrow&dpPl=1&dpID=51z8tLlOVbL&ref=plSrch
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Lynne Olson
Citizens of London: The Americans Who Stood with Britain in Its Darkest, Finest Hour
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0812979354/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1472433292&sr=8-5&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=edward+r+murrow&dpPl=1&dpID=51FesH5GfdL&ref=plSrch
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A. M. Sperber
Murrow: His Life and Times
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/055334384X/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1472433292&sr=8-6&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=edward+r+murrow&dpPl=1&dpID=51DgZidl3VL&ref=plSrch
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Shawn Levy
The Last Playboy: The High Life of Porfirio Rubirosa
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0007170602/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472433625&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=porfirio+rubirosa&dpPl=1&dpID=41S%2BFEQ0S4L&ref=plSrch
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Leonard Slater
Aly (bio of Ali Khan)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0007H3LYS/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472433717&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=aly+khan&dpPl=1&dpID=41n5YtXn1ZL&ref=plSrch
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Denzil, Baron Holles’ memoirs have been published, but may make for hard reading. I have not read them, and he may write for the ages. But in addition to his grander gestures and accomplishments, he was deeply involved in stuff life tax, trade, and currency minutia, and a lots of tiny pieces of Parliamentary and Court politics that would today interest only a historian.
The best sources on him may be modern histories that cover the lives of Charles I and II, Cromwell, and the history of the English Civil War.
I wish someone would do a modern biography of him, if I haven’t missed one. He seems worth it.
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And there is more
You can follow these connections thru the New York society and media angle (Truman Capote, Bill and Babe Paley, Gloria Vanderbilt, Vanity Fair magazine, CZ Guest, Carole Matthau, Oona O’Neill); or the Hollywood angle (endless, start perhaps with Dominick Dunne, also Bogie and Bacall); or European and American jet-set, mostly in Europe, pre-and-post-war (Barbara Hutton, Daisy Fellowes, Rita Hayworth, also Gianni and Marella Agnelli); the sinister-thru-stupidity yet fascinating Duke and Duchess of Windsor, seemingly the most self-involved people ever; the American-born WWII intelligence agent Aline who became, by marriage, spanish Countess of Romanones, and of course Grace Kelly. And the people thinly disguised in Truman Capote’s late works, Answered Prayers and perhaps Music for Chameleons.
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And don’t forget the incredible Mitford sisters, 6 daughters of Baron and Baroness Redesdale whose combined stories are still mind-blowing.
According to daughters Jessica and Deborah, their parents knew that whenever a headline read “peer’s daughter” or “aristocrat’s daughter” on the front page of a scandal sheet, the story would always be about one of the Mitford girls.
Nancy the Novelist
(Novels and bios. The greatest wit in the family, which is saying something. The Pursuit of Love and Love in a Cold Climate are wonderful, humorous. social disrupter in England and Europe. Unfortunately, died of cancer when she should have had decades to go.)
Pamela the unobtrusive poultry connoisseur
(The normal one)
Thomas Mitford, born next, never competed with his sisters
Diana the Fascist
(Grew up seemingly normal, then after being Deb of the year, being considered the most beautiful woman in England, and marrying the most eligible guy (a Guinness), she turned round on respectability, left her husband, married Oswald Mosley; head of the British fascists (the wedding was at the German home of Joseph Goebbels!!!); spent the war in jail as a supporter of the Third Reich; after the war she and husband left for France where they lived out their lives as Holocaust deniers and sometime racists - however, she’s a gifted writer, no matter how horrible her political views)
Unity the Hitler-lover
(she,as a teenager, lived in Germany for finishing school, idolized Hitler and got to know him socially. introduced then teenaged Pamela Digby to Hitler, and shot herself in 1939 when Germany and England went to war - after which Hilter personally got involved in seeing that she got back to England to the care of her family. Was at least somewhat impaired and childish for the rest of her life from the head-wound and died in 1948 of complications of her head-wound)
Jessica the Communist
(Grew up left-wing in contrast to sister Unity the Nazi; eloped and ran away to fight against the fascists in the Spanish Civil War; moved to the US after the Spain cause was lost; lost her husband in WWII, re-married, joined the American Communist Party, left the party and denounced Stalin, campaigned successfully for changes to the American funeral industry (almost single-handedly) and the American birth industry, firebrand all her life, wrote a terrific and funny memoir called Hons and Rebels. Jessica Mitford has her flaws, but is a lifelong heroine and inspiration to JK Rowling. And to me.)
Deborah the Duchess of Devonshire (married a younger son who got promoted to Duke when his brother was killed in the war. Sister-in-law to John F Kennedy, the Kennedys considered her to be family, (Kick Kennedy married her husband’s older brother who was killed) did cattle round-ups with LBJ, raised champion poultry, championed 12-step movements in the UK, all around fun. Got to live at Chatsworth. Only died a few years ago. Able to be completely matter-of-fact, normal, practical, warm and funny in any circumstance. Loved people, did not care who was a Duke, a royal, a President, or a landscaper, a local pub-owner; and liked her chickens and other agricultural projects perhaps even better than most people she knew. Many books, especially on Chatsworth.)
@f00l
OMG forgot to mention:
Unity Mitford, who loved Hitler and shot herself at approx age 25, when WWII started, was named at birth:
Unity Valkyrie Mitford
But she was born in 1914, in early August, right at the outbreak of the First World War, when they thought that war would take just a few months.
Surely In 1914 no one could have known what was coming or how Unity’s name would look to persons by 1940.
@f00l It is now thoroughly established that you, for certain, do not give a FUCK about TL;DR.
@Pavlov
Tl;dr
What don’t I give a fuck about, again?
Was gonna star this then I saw the buzzfeed link.
@DrunkCat
So buzzfeed is bad even if it’s good?
@f00l
/giphy exactly
The first time I saw this topic, I read it as 12 horizontal women, which I’ll acknowledge piqued my interest slightly more than 12 historical women or 12 hysterical women.
Now, every time I see it, I am reminded of my initial misreading and chuckle slightly.
@baqui63
I believe it was indicated in the thread title that these women Did Not Give A Fuck. Tho they may have taken, been given, or absconded with some Fucks along the way.
Less “gives no fucks” and more “made beach boys songs better”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Kaye