Well since I don’t put your time clock anymore and don’t use an alarm a she’ll wake up between 4:00 and 5:00 in the morning so sleeping in is anything after 5:30
@Cerridwyn, ah. I was quite confused by most of your post.
If I’m understanding, you don’t use an alarm clock. I don’t either. I wake around 0530 - 0600 every morning on my own
@mycya4me@werehatrack Telling cats to come back later though still doesn’t mean I can sleep through their insistence that, despite a bowl with food in it, they need to be fed.
@werehatrack yeah. My wife gets to sleep in. My kids get to sleep in. You know who never does…
Me.
Whether sick, or just haven’t slept… I never get a day off from getting up to feed cats or let dogs out to pee.
Oh, I could try out sleeping the wife and kids (hard to do), but cats trampling all over me meowing pitifully and dogs whining outside the bedroom door prevents me sleeping or relaxing anyway.
There have been times navigating the stairs on crutches at 8:30am (far later than I normally get up) after having tried waiting for hours for someone else to help out, to let the dogs out.
@Kidsandliz@mycya4me@narfcake@werehatrack@Kyeh
I’ve never seen a partially emptied cat food bowl! Our two little piggies are Gold Star members of the clean plate club. Especially now, when we have put them on a diet - they just turned 8YO and are quite overweight - the boy is 18lbs and his sister is 16lbs.
Lately, since we started cutting back the cats’ food, I’ve caught them checking out the dog’s dish, but he cleans his plate too so there usually isn’t anything to poach. (Fortunately for them the dog, 4X their size/weight, is pretty easy going and doesn’t protest their incursions.)
@heartny@PooltoyWolf@Tadlem43 Same here, with the guilty feelings; also I do think early morning is beautiful. Spanish hours (or what they used to be) would probably suit me best.
@heartny@Kyeh@PooltoyWolf@Salanth
What’s funny is that all of the women on my mom’s side of the family are just like I am…or they were. Some of them had day jobs, so they had to overcome it, but when they were on vacation, or had any extended time off, they all were night owls.
Guess I ‘come by it rightly’. lol
@PooltoyWolf@Tadlem43 exactly but depending on the era, people who do not fit the assumed ‘norm’ are considered abnormal. I have a hard time getting fasting labs done because breakfast is 5 AM and the labs open at 0630. This means that I’m down right Hangry if wait
@Cerridwyn@PooltoyWolf@Tadlem43 I had to have a medical test done, and I had to take a pill at bedtime the night before. Well, I went to bed at 3, so that’s when I took the pill. It wasn’t as effective as the doctor had hoped, so she asked if I took the pill at bedtime. I said yes, so she asked me what time. She wasn’t happy that I took it so late, but if they want people to take medicine by a certain time, they should say “Take at XX p.m.”
@PooltoyWolf@Tadlem43 I used to work with someone who was a holier-than-thou morning person. She always found a way to make me defensive about being a night person.
@Cerridwyn@lisagd@PooltoyWolf When I have my medical tests done, like routine labs, I just go in later in the day. As long as it’s fasting, they don’t really care about the times…esp. since I have my labs done a few days before my doctor’s appointment. I just tell them I am a day sleeper.
@lisagd@PooltoyWolf@Tadlem43 We had one woman where I worked who was so smug about getting in early, like an hour before most people - but then she’d just wander around drinking coffee and talking to people.
@Cerridwyn@lisagd@PooltoyWolf@Tadlem43 But we don’t - we’re all defensive after enduring years of being treated like we’re somehow morally inferior for not getting up at dawn. I never see any self-help articles telling people how to overcome their tendencies to get up early, only info about how to “stop hitting that snooze button!”
@Cerridwyn@Kyeh@PooltoyWolf@Tadlem43 Exactly! If people want to get up at the crack of dawn, that’s their business. I don’t shame them for not staying up late or try to convert them.
@Kyeh@lisagd@PooltoyWolf@Tadlem43 well over the years, i have personally been asked why the hell do i not sleep in, why do i want to be awake before the sun, etc.
it probably goes along with the you’re different from me so you are wrong?
i cannot enjoy a concert, go to the pub when they have music,etc, without either actually nodding off or being so tired i can’t enjoy it. And after covid ,it’s worse. for both of us actually. stores aren’t open for me at 5 am or you at midnight.
teenagers who are morning people get it worse. everyone, including researchers, say it is wrong to force them to get up early. well, not all are forced.
it’s like the academically challenged and academically gifted, both are shafted because they are not what society things is normal
2 personal stories.
I used to hang out in a game with a lot of east coast gamers. I was often the first one to bed, was out on the east coast and they thought ‘oh good, you’ll be able to stay up late with us’. wrong, within 24 hours I was asleep at 9pm and up at 5
i have also travelled with a night owl friend, we joke that she’s going to bed when i’m getting up. and we have actually done that. she is one of those who her normal cycle is up at 11 - noon, asleep around 4-5, my lunch is her breakfast.
@Cerridwyn@Kyeh@lisagd@Tadlem43 Society in general really seems to have a problem with just…letting people enjoy their lives the ways they want to. Whether it’s sleep schedules, tastes in food, weather preferences…
@Cerridwyn@lisagd@PooltoyWolf@Tadlem43 Sorry, but you sound a little like my late husband who used to complain about all the attention given to people who are overweight, whereas he was skinny as a rail his whole life and felt like his “problems” were being ignored.
If you google self-help for getting up early it’s 99% about how to do it, not how to overcome it. And it IS getting better now that people can do things virtually so outside-of-the-norm schedules aren’t so difficult. But night owls have made to feel lazy and even immoral for so long; early birds maybe get regarded as less fun, but more virtuous.
I’m one of 4 kids. My dad was an early riser and my mom was a night owl. 2 of us are night owls and can easily sleep until noon, the other 2 are early risers. My sister constantly gives me a hard time about sleeping late. She thinks I “just have to get on a schedule and go to bed earlier”. It pisses me off.
I could get up for work when I had to, but it’s just not my natural rhythm. I don’t work anymore, and my kids are grown, so I can have whatever schedule suits me…but even if I go to bed early, I’ll either wake up at midnight and lay awake until 4, or still wind up sleeping late. My normal time to fall asleep is closer to 3am, and I get up around 11 or 12… but I feel so guilty about it! And for me, I actually hate that I sleep late. I do feel like I miss half the day, and I don’t want to! But I don’t need early risers to make me feel worse than I already do. Like, don’t they realize that if it was as easy as having a schedule, I would do it? The world is not friendly to late risers.
@Cerridwyn@Kyeh@lisagd@Tadlem43 When I was much younger (think kid to early teen), I was always up with the sun, but early adulthood changed something in me and from that period in my life onward, I was very firmly NOT a morning person. The only times I truly get excited about waking up before the sun does is when I’m going to an airport to get on a plane!
@EdgarAllenPope Similar here - my dog starts letting out an occasional Woof! when he decides it’s time to go outside/eat breakfast. About half the year (with earlier sunrise), this means ~6AM; in the darker months it’s more like 7AM.
And once I’m up, I’m up for the day. (On the plus side, he’s never made a mess in the house, and I’m pretty motivated to maintain that streak.)
Weekdays I normally wake up between 2:30 and 3:30. I toss and turn for a bit but am typically out of bed before 4:30. Kiddo is in a great comp sci/math program in high school that is a long way away, so she gets up a little after 5:00. We’re normally out the door around 6:15. On days off, my brain still gets me up around 3, but I toss and turn a bit longer. Today I didn’t get out of bed until 5:30. Lots of waggy dog tails at the bottom of the stairs (wondering where I’ve been).
@capnjb I’d rather go to bed between 2:30 and 3:30 than get up then. My cousin is more like you. Sometimes we see each other on FB when I’m going to bed and she’s up for the day.
@lisagd I think my wrecked sleep schedule goes back to when I had my health thing and lived on the couch outside the bathroom for the better part of a year. I’d set my alarm for every hour and a half to manage my ostomy. It was 15 minutes to take care of things and if I was lucky 15 minutes to get back to sleep. For most of a year I never slept for more than an hour straight. It really broke my sleep pattern and even now, two years later, I’m thankful if I can get 3-4 hours in a row. It’s disruptive. I still sleep on the couch 2 or 3 times a week because it isn’t fair to my wife to keep her up with all my tossing and turning. It feels like forever ago when I was in the hospital, but it also feels like yesterday. I’m just ironing out all the wrinkles… doing my best to get back to normal
@capnjb That sounds absolutely exhausting! I wake up most nights to use the bathroom, but it’s usually after 5 or 6 hours, so I’m getting a decent block of sleep.
@capnjb@lisagd This morning, around a quarter after two, one of the cats woke me up by gravity-bonking me on the head. After twenty minutes, I was still very wide awake, so I got up and repaired something, had a snack, tossed down two Benadryl, waited until they started to take effect, and went back to bed. I slept until 1PM.
I have a shifted work schedule, so my “Saturday” is Monday. Sleep starts as soon as I get home after work Sunday, possibly after a warm meal and shower, and continues until just before dawn Tuesday.
I probably have problems I need to address, or at the least work around, but yeah, the current work around to fatigue is “coma”.
Back in my college days, staying up until 1 am studying was practically a right of passage. Then, the dreaded 7 am alarm would blare, leaving me feeling like a zombie all day. Even on weekends, “sleeping in” might mean until 9 am, but I’d still be dragging.
Now that I’m working, things are different. Sure, I might still pull an all-nighter occasionally, but the beauty is, if I do, I can actually sleep all next day! Even though I might go to bed at the same 1 am as in college, waking up at 8 or 9 am makes a world of difference. I understood that if I sneak in an extra hour or two of sleep (comparing to college times), I feel so much more refreshed and ready to take on the day.
I told my kid she needed to be in bed 8.5 (when she had that much sleep she wasn’t nearly as bitchy). She’d spend about 2 hours getting dressed, doing makeup, hair, etc. (this was high school). So she’d go to bed, of her own accord, at 9 to get up at 5:30 to catch the 7:23 am bus. Of course now her kids catch a 6:50am bus (elementary school, at least the same busses go back for the high school kids so they get to sleep in later). I have no idea when they go to bed but I don’t think it is early enough as they often fall asleep on the bus coming home.
Well since I don’t put your time clock anymore and don’t use an alarm a she’ll wake up between 4:00 and 5:00 in the morning so sleeping in is anything after 5:30
@Cerridwyn, who is “she?”
@kittykat9180 lol voice to text. Me
@Cerridwyn, ah. I was quite confused by most of your post.
If I’m understanding, you don’t use an alarm clock. I don’t either. I wake around 0530 - 0600 every morning on my own
@kittykat9180 no worries, sometimes voice to text right before sleep is weired
and yep, no alarm clock anymore. and i wake up anywhere between 0330 and 0600 with 0430 to 0500 being the most common
Haha a day off. Would be a great dream but I don’t sleep.
I’m retired so no waking up before noon, and preferably a good deal later, for me.
The cats make sure I get up at the proper time.
@werehatrack yep, know the feeling, but if it is before 7:30a, I tell the cat to come back later!
@mycya4me @werehatrack Telling cats to come back later though still doesn’t mean I can sleep through their insistence that, despite a bowl with food in it, they need to be fed.
@Kidsandliz @mycya4me @werehatrack they don’t need food. they are just bored and want attention.
@Kidsandliz @mycya4me @werehatrack
@Kidsandliz @werehatrack Mine Knows that he don’t want me cranky! so he will lay at on the Floor close to the Bed!
@Kidsandliz @mycya4me @narfcake @werehatrack Truth!!!
@Kidsandliz @narfcake @werehatrack Plus I will shake it, Let it smooth out all the food. Later I will put more in it!
@Kidsandliz @mycya4me @narfcake The magic shake is a real thing
@Kidsandliz @narfcake @werehatrack Yep I use it all the Time!
@werehatrack yeah. My wife gets to sleep in. My kids get to sleep in. You know who never does…
Me.
Whether sick, or just haven’t slept… I never get a day off from getting up to feed cats or let dogs out to pee.
Oh, I could try out sleeping the wife and kids (hard to do), but cats trampling all over me meowing pitifully and dogs whining outside the bedroom door prevents me sleeping or relaxing anyway.
There have been times navigating the stairs on crutches at 8:30am (far later than I normally get up) after having tried waiting for hours for someone else to help out, to let the dogs out.
@Kidsandliz @mycya4me @narfcake @werehatrack @Kyeh
I’ve never seen a partially emptied cat food bowl! Our two little piggies are Gold Star members of the clean plate club. Especially now, when we have put them on a diet - they just turned 8YO and are quite overweight - the boy is 18lbs and his sister is 16lbs.
Lately, since we started cutting back the cats’ food, I’ve caught them checking out the dog’s dish, but he cleans his plate too so there usually isn’t anything to poach. (Fortunately for them the dog, 4X their size/weight, is pretty easy going and doesn’t protest their incursions.)
I’m nocturnal, so.
@PooltoyWolf Me, too… and somehow always feel kind of guilty about it.
@PooltoyWolf Me too, to the point where friends have called me a vampire.
@Tadlem43 I stopped feeling guilty when I realized time is only a number, and the importance of those numbers varies from person to person.
@PooltoyWolf @Tadlem43 It’s kind of like age is just a number, and mine is unlisted.
@heartny @PooltoyWolf @Tadlem43 Same here, with the guilty feelings; also I do think early morning is beautiful. Spanish hours (or what they used to be) would probably suit me best.
@heartny @Kyeh @Tadlem43 ‘Early morning’ is a foreign concept to me! Lol
@heartny @Kyeh @PooltoyWolf Early morning is when I go to bed.
@heartny @Kyeh @Tadlem43 -brofist-
@heartny @PooltoyWolf @Tadlem43
Post-sunrise?
@heartny @Kyeh @Tadlem43 I try to be asleep before the sun knocks on my bedroom window. Heh
@heartny @Kyeh @PooltoyWolf I’m like PooltoyWolf. I try…try…to be asleep when the sun rises. Sometimes that works, sometimes, not so much.
@heartny @Kyeh @Tadlem43 Exactly the same here haha
@heartny @Kyeh @PooltoyWolf @Tadlem43
Clearly our ancestors had the night shift guarding the family.
@heartny @Kyeh @PooltoyWolf @Salanth
What’s funny is that all of the women on my mom’s side of the family are just like I am…or they were. Some of them had day jobs, so they had to overcome it, but when they were on vacation, or had any extended time off, they all were night owls.
Guess I ‘come by it rightly’. lol
@PooltoyWolf @Tadlem43 exactly but depending on the era, people who do not fit the assumed ‘norm’ are considered abnormal. I have a hard time getting fasting labs done because breakfast is 5 AM and the labs open at 0630. This means that I’m down right Hangry if wait
@Cerridwyn @PooltoyWolf @Tadlem43 I had to have a medical test done, and I had to take a pill at bedtime the night before. Well, I went to bed at 3, so that’s when I took the pill. It wasn’t as effective as the doctor had hoped, so she asked if I took the pill at bedtime. I said yes, so she asked me what time. She wasn’t happy that I took it so late, but if they want people to take medicine by a certain time, they should say “Take at XX p.m.”
@heartny @PooltoyWolf @Salanth @Tadlem43
That’s exactly what I believe too!
It makes so much sense.
@PooltoyWolf @Tadlem43 I used to work with someone who was a holier-than-thou morning person. She always found a way to make me defensive about being a night person.
@lisagd @PooltoyWolf @Tadlem43 Curses on Ben Franklin and his sanctimonious “early to bed early to rise” propaganda!
> 
@lisagd @PooltoyWolf Been there.
@Cerridwyn @lisagd @PooltoyWolf When I have my medical tests done, like routine labs, I just go in later in the day. As long as it’s fasting, they don’t really care about the times…esp. since I have my labs done a few days before my doctor’s appointment. I just tell them I am a day sleeper.
@lisagd @PooltoyWolf @Tadlem43 We had one woman where I worked who was so smug about getting in early, like an hour before most people - but then she’d just wander around drinking coffee and talking to people.
@Cerridwyn @PooltoyWolf @Tadlem43 Mine was more of a procedure done by the doctor, so I had to go at the appointed time.
@Kyeh @PooltoyWolf @Tadlem43 What is it with morning people thinking they’re morally superior?
@Kyeh @lisagd @PooltoyWolf @Tadlem43 what is it with night people who think they’re the only normal ones?
@Cerridwyn @lisagd @PooltoyWolf @Tadlem43 But we don’t - we’re all defensive after enduring years of being treated like we’re somehow morally inferior for not getting up at dawn. I never see any self-help articles telling people how to overcome their tendencies to get up early, only info about how to “stop hitting that snooze button!”
@Cerridwyn @lisagd @PooltoyWolf @Tadlem43
@Cerridwyn @lisagd @Tadlem43 Completely agree. Fight the machine!
@Cerridwyn @Kyeh @PooltoyWolf @Tadlem43 Exactly! If people want to get up at the crack of dawn, that’s their business. I don’t shame them for not staying up late or try to convert them.
@Kyeh @lisagd @PooltoyWolf @Tadlem43 well over the years, i have personally been asked why the hell do i not sleep in, why do i want to be awake before the sun, etc.
it probably goes along with the you’re different from me so you are wrong?
i cannot enjoy a concert, go to the pub when they have music,etc, without either actually nodding off or being so tired i can’t enjoy it. And after covid ,it’s worse. for both of us actually. stores aren’t open for me at 5 am or you at midnight.
teenagers who are morning people get it worse. everyone, including researchers, say it is wrong to force them to get up early. well, not all are forced.
it’s like the academically challenged and academically gifted, both are shafted because they are not what society things is normal
2 personal stories.
I used to hang out in a game with a lot of east coast gamers. I was often the first one to bed, was out on the east coast and they thought ‘oh good, you’ll be able to stay up late with us’. wrong, within 24 hours I was asleep at 9pm and up at 5
i have also travelled with a night owl friend, we joke that she’s going to bed when i’m getting up. and we have actually done that. she is one of those who her normal cycle is up at 11 - noon, asleep around 4-5, my lunch is her breakfast.
@Cerridwyn @Kyeh @lisagd @Tadlem43 Society in general really seems to have a problem with just…letting people enjoy their lives the ways they want to. Whether it’s sleep schedules, tastes in food, weather preferences…
@Cerridwyn @lisagd @PooltoyWolf @Tadlem43 Sorry, but you sound a little like my late husband who used to complain about all the attention given to people who are overweight, whereas he was skinny as a rail his whole life and felt like his “problems” were being ignored.
If you google self-help for getting up early it’s 99% about how to do it, not how to overcome it. And it IS getting better now that people can do things virtually so outside-of-the-norm schedules aren’t so difficult. But night owls have made to feel lazy and even immoral for so long; early birds maybe get regarded as less fun, but more virtuous.
@Cerridwyn @Kyeh @lisagd @PooltoyWolf @Tadlem43
. I completely believe your biological clock/circadian rhythm is genetic!
Night owl with guilt here!
I’m one of 4 kids. My dad was an early riser and my mom was a night owl. 2 of us are night owls and can easily sleep until noon, the other 2 are early risers. My sister constantly gives me a hard time about sleeping late. She thinks I “just have to get on a schedule and go to bed earlier”. It pisses me off.
I could get up for work when I had to, but it’s just not my natural rhythm. I don’t work anymore, and my kids are grown, so I can have whatever schedule suits me…but even if I go to bed early, I’ll either wake up at midnight and lay awake until 4, or still wind up sleeping late. My normal time to fall asleep is closer to 3am, and I get up around 11 or 12… but I feel so guilty about it! And for me, I actually hate that I sleep late. I do feel like I miss half the day, and I don’t want to! But I don’t need early risers to make me feel worse than I already do. Like, don’t they realize that if it was as easy as having a schedule, I would do it? The world is not friendly to late risers.
Night owls unite!!
@Cerridwyn @lisagd @PooltoyWolf @Tadlem43
@k4evryngYou put it really well - I’d prefer to be an early bird too, but after all these years I don’t think it’s ever going to happen.
@Cerridwyn @Kyeh @lisagd @Tadlem43 When I was much younger (think kid to early teen), I was always up with the sun, but early adulthood changed something in me and from that period in my life onward, I was very firmly NOT a morning person. The only times I truly get excited about waking up before the sun does is when I’m going to an airport to get on a plane!
@Cerridwyn @k4evryng @Kyeh @lisagd @PooltoyWolf Yes!! This!!
/showme sleeping in with benefits
I know I’ve seen that male model used in other /showmes I’ve done here before…
@mediocrebot
These are truly getting better and better…
@haydesigner Yeah, I thought he looked familiar too.
@chienfou …though I’m a little concerned about the length of his arm, casually fitting all the way around her and over to the cat…
I guess it matches his long neck?
Hey @mediocrebot all your men look the same these days. Cartoon ugly.
Sleeping in usually means past 7am.
@narfcake No later?
@Kyeh @narfcake My alarm is set for 6:30 weekdays, 7 on weekends. I was up at 6:15 for the past 3 days.
Sleeping until I get up. I work 2nd shift so don’t have to generally set an alarm.
The options listed are closer to my going to sleep times on my days off.
Dogs determine when I get up. Im retired everyday is a day off and I’m always up by 6 but usually 5.
@EdgarAllenPope Similar here - my dog starts letting out an occasional Woof! when he decides it’s time to go outside/eat breakfast. About half the year (with earlier sunrise), this means ~6AM; in the darker months it’s more like 7AM.
And once I’m up, I’m up for the day. (On the plus side, he’s never made a mess in the house, and I’m pretty motivated to maintain that streak.)
@EdgarAllenPope My dog wasn’t a morning dog. She’d patiently wait until I woke up. In fact, there were a few times when I woke her up.
After 0600 is sleeping in but I’d prefer not to do that, especially in the summer as I have to run before it gets too hot here in the desert.
No alarm means usually between 7-8am, but I’ll usually just chill in bed reading for a bit
Damn. Suddenly, I feel cheated. I always enjoyed my days off and sleeping in. Now I’m retired and have lost those special days! Oh… wait…never mind!
Weekdays I normally wake up between 2:30 and 3:30. I toss and turn for a bit but am typically out of bed before 4:30. Kiddo is in a great comp sci/math program in high school that is a long way away, so she gets up a little after 5:00. We’re normally out the door around 6:15. On days off, my brain still gets me up around 3, but I toss and turn a bit longer. Today I didn’t get out of bed until 5:30. Lots of waggy dog tails at the bottom of the stairs (wondering where I’ve been).
@capnjb I’d rather go to bed between 2:30 and 3:30 than get up then. My cousin is more like you. Sometimes we see each other on FB when I’m going to bed and she’s up for the day.
@lisagd I think my wrecked sleep schedule goes back to when I had my health thing and lived on the couch outside the bathroom for the better part of a year. I’d set my alarm for every hour and a half to manage my ostomy. It was 15 minutes to take care of things and if I was lucky 15 minutes to get back to sleep. For most of a year I never slept for more than an hour straight. It really broke my sleep pattern and even now, two years later, I’m thankful if I can get 3-4 hours in a row. It’s disruptive. I still sleep on the couch 2 or 3 times a week because it isn’t fair to my wife to keep her up with all my tossing and turning. It feels like forever ago when I was in the hospital, but it also feels like yesterday. I’m just ironing out all the wrinkles… doing my best to get back to normal
@capnjb That sounds absolutely exhausting! I wake up most nights to use the bathroom, but it’s usually after 5 or 6 hours, so I’m getting a decent block of sleep.
@capnjb @lisagd This morning, around a quarter after two, one of the cats woke me up by gravity-bonking me on the head. After twenty minutes, I was still very wide awake, so I got up and repaired something, had a snack, tossed down two Benadryl, waited until they started to take effect, and went back to bed. I slept until 1PM.
@lisagd @werehatrack I was up… next time send me a text. We can work on some investment banking or a movie script in the off hours
@lisagd
To be honest, I am happy and thankful to be here bitching and complaining about it. I’ll shut up now
I have a shifted work schedule, so my “Saturday” is Monday. Sleep starts as soon as I get home after work Sunday, possibly after a warm meal and shower, and continues until just before dawn Tuesday.
I probably have problems I need to address, or at the least work around, but yeah, the current work around to fatigue is “coma”.
Back in my college days, staying up until 1 am studying was practically a right of passage. Then, the dreaded 7 am alarm would blare, leaving me feeling like a zombie all day. Even on weekends, “sleeping in” might mean until 9 am, but I’d still be dragging.
Now that I’m working, things are different. Sure, I might still pull an all-nighter occasionally, but the beauty is, if I do, I can actually sleep all next day! Even though I might go to bed at the same 1 am as in college, waking up at 8 or 9 am makes a world of difference. I understood that if I sneak in an extra hour or two of sleep (comparing to college times), I feel so much more refreshed and ready to take on the day.
really, anything after 4am is sleeping in.
most workdays I’m on the clock at either 5, or 6 am.
but a lot of days off, I’m awake, but not out of bed until noon.
I told my kid she needed to be in bed 8.5 (when she had that much sleep she wasn’t nearly as bitchy). She’d spend about 2 hours getting dressed, doing makeup, hair, etc. (this was high school). So she’d go to bed, of her own accord, at 9 to get up at 5:30 to catch the 7:23 am bus. Of course now her kids catch a 6:50am bus (elementary school, at least the same busses go back for the high school kids so they get to sleep in later). I have no idea when they go to bed but I don’t think it is early enough as they often fall asleep on the bus coming home.