@RiotDemon i feel as busy as i think people used to before dishwashers and laundry machines.i think we created newer tasks so we just replaced that work wirh other work. Of course i have time to waste here i think prior generations would not have, so probably wrong.
@mollama - I’ll give you dishwashers, which use lots of water to do a job a human can do more efficiently (and much faster) when properly organized. But clothes washers - no way.
@RiotDemon - Meh, that’s one of those “If you don’t do things you ordinarily would do, certain advanced versions of this are more efficient than someone doing the thing like a drunken sailor” articles. Does anyone seriously not prerinse their dishes? How often DO you wash a full load (or conversely but somehow not mentioned in the article, not be able to fit all the dirty dishes in the washer and have to do a couple loads.) The heat-to-sanitize issue is a serious point, but otherwise, pffft.
@awk Do not be mislead by the myth of self determination. Give in now to your machine overlords, and enjoy your newfound servitude. The liberation of surrender will heal you.
Meh.com staff have surely thought of this (hell, they may well have done it), but this, more than most, Meh surveys really deserves a “Meh” radio button. Because we never see the end coming. We just meh along until we’ve been meh’d.
Every time I click on the “something else that I’ll share in the comments” opinion, I expect to be redirected to the community page. (See also, point 1, above.) But instead I have to go (drunkenly) searching for it each time.
@hchavers that’s what I meant with, “We just meh along until we’ve been meh’d.” It’s like boiling a frog. you put them in a pot of warm water. It gradually gets hotter, but they adjust. Until they are boiled to death.
Mehchines will be gradually useful, until they make us obsolete.
@thismyusername do you have a cold? “Cold machines”, “jerbs” sounds like germs, not jobs. i agree machines can take our colds and flus. That would be awesome.
Since I make my living writing software that is used to run robots, I am quite happy. Here is a link to some interesting videos from a company that is a customer: https://www.mrmoco.com/thebolt/
@medz OK by me. I’ve done plenty of adapting since I started in the software biz almost 40 years ago - things change continuously. I expect that particular change won’t happen before I retire anyway.
@macromeh Right. You would just start coding the coding robots, I suppose. My goal is to try to work myself out of a job. By which I mean make things so efficient and intervention-free that I’m no longer needed in the process. What happens is I move on to other processes, so I never really end up with nothing to do.
@macromeh
Luckily for you and me, programming is going to be one of the last major jobs taken. But by that point, we would be tired of always working when everyone else gets permanent vacations.
@DVDBZN Not so fast on that comment. I was a programmer (not really but sort of). My entire department was laid off so the company could hire a contracting firm. Not sure who they are but when I did work there, I noticed most of those contracting jobs went to India. So if you’re a programmer in the USA, I would still be worried.
Seriously, if that self-driving car doesn’t have a Johnny-Cab animatron that I can rip out and drive with the joystick underneath him, they can keep the fucking thing.
What about the other problem: humans taking work away from machines? Is there anything sadder than a wandering band of meeping little Roombas out looking for work or just an available wall plug for a short recharge?
I will be one of those Luddites who fights fully automated cars to the end. I’m not a good driver, I’m a great one, backed up by many people who have ridden with me. Friends literally offer to pay all my gas on trips because they feel safer with me driving, and I’ve had two people tell me they feel safer with me driving than anyone else they’ve known. I’m a control freak anyway.
Now I’ll be happy to turn over the reigns during bumper to bumper traffic where I’m just inching forward every minute or so. But when I’m on an interstate or mountain pass or driving downtown, I will be the one making the decisions.
@Kabn You could be part of the problem – over confidence in your driving abilities. Self driving cars will have faster reaction time, can see behind them, beside them, and in front all at the same time. They can made decisions immediately without being distracted by discussions with the passengers. It’s well documented that self driven cars are safer than human driven ones.
Automated cars can have sensors that the humans don’t have like lidar that can “see” in the dark. They can detect distance and speed changes of cars around them with great accuracy.
I’ve been driving for nearly 40 years and never had an accident. But I’m not confident enough to say that it will never happen when I’m driving.
@cengland0 Self-driving cards are safer in the aggregate than human drivers overall. Many minor accidents currently caused by humans are during situations where I’d be happy handing over the reigns (stop and go traffic, when I’m really tired, when I need to make a call, etc.). And, again, I consider myself an outlier when it comes to driving ability and attentiveness, backed up by my record and passenger experiences.
I’ve worked in tech for almost 20 years, so I’m in the “I’ll trust it when I see it really work” camp. Even Google, Tesla, and others admit there are situations where their vehicles currently struggle, such as weather conditions that limit sensor functionality, roads with worn or missing lane markings, and inner-city situations (with sketchy GPS readings between buildings and non-vehicle obstacles that are much more difficult to perceive with their sensors).
And then there’s the classic conundrum of whether, given an emergency situation, an automated vehicle will choose to hit another large object or a smaller one, regardless of the fact that the smaller object is a pedestrian walking against the light who will incur much more damage than a parked car.
Based on available data, I’m still a safer driver during a downpour in downtown Portland or going up Mount Hood during winter when the road is at least partially covered in a mixture of packed snow and clay sediment.
I think the vision of 100% self-driving cars will simply not be feasible in most areas for a long time, so we’ll be in a state where there will be a lot of driver assist technologies and full automation in specific scenarios, which is great. I’m guessing I’ll just choose full automation less than the average person.
And, again, I consider myself an outlier when it comes to driving ability and attentiveness, backed up by my record and passenger experiences.
Based on available data, I’m still a safer driver during a downpour in downtown Portland or going up Mount Hood during winter when the road is at least partially covered in a mixture of packed snow and clay sediment.
Classic. Seems everyone thinks they are a better driver than everyone else. Even drunk people think it’s safe for them to drive.
I can use the analogy of Racquetball because I will be coordinating the league tonight for my local gym. Many “C” level people (average) are playing in the “A/B” doubles league (excellent players). They think they are better than they really are. None of the real “A” players join the league because they don’t need to brag about winning. So the winner of the league will be what I consider a high “C” or low “B” player and that team will continue to think they are the best player out there. But they don’t realize the real good players don’t join the league.
George Carlin had a joke I thought was funny. Ever notice how everyone driving slower than you is an idiot and everyone driving faster than you is a maniac? (Might not have it worded exactly because I’m going by memory.)
given an emergency situation, an automated vehicle will choose to hit another large object or a smaller one
My sister is a bus driver and has been trained to purposely hit cars under specific situations. Of course you try to stop in that situation but it may not be possible. For example, if a parked car opens the door, the bus will hit the door instead of swerving into a nearby lane. I suppose this is due to liability where you can blame the person that opened the door for that accident but who can you blame if you caused an accident with a car in the other lane that you swerved into? Probably the bus driver and then you have litigation issues for the state.
@cengland0 That’s funny, because I’m told I usually underestimate my skills. I played the entry-level mixed ultimate frisbee league last spring, and after the first couple games, I had people asking why I wasn’t playing the higher level men’s only league.
The only reason I claim to be an outlier in driving is I made a conscious decision in my teens that I wanted to be the best driver I could be because, well, it matters. People die and get killed all the time on the road, so the benefit/reward of being really good at it is real and measurable. I memorized most of my state’s driving manual. I badgered friends and family members to stop using their phones while driving way before it was banned anywhere. I’ve never flipped anyone off on the road. I’ve never driven drunk. I don’t get pissed at other drivers for not going my chosen speed. I don’t tailgate. I signal literally every time I deviate from an indicated path. I don’t change lanes before or in intersections. I constantly check my mirrors (and have the side ones positioned correctly so I basically don’t have blind spots). I still have a windshield mounted GPS unit so I don’t have to mess with my phone in transit. And, again, it is very common for passengers to (unprompted) comment on how safe/good of a driver I am.
In your analogy, the bad players get inflated views of self because the really good players never enter the league, but all the drivers are out there on the road, and I can see all the video I want of the successes and struggles of automated vehicles, so I know what the competition is. And I can say, as a result of years of specific, concerted effort and ongoing attention, I’m as good or better than what I’ve seen. If a racquetball player practiced almost daily for 20 years and claimed to be a really good player, I doubt you’d roll your eyes and tell them everyone thinks they’re good.
Honestly… when I was a kid (a long time ago) automation was really just beginning in a lot of work places. The talk everywhere (and we had to discuss it in class often) was what was going to happen in 20 yrs when robots had all the jobs, etc. Well… about 50 yrs have passed and from where I sit it appears that yes… some jobs may have disappeared but… all that automation isn’t flawless and other types of jobs were created because of it.
Now…where I do see jobs going are in places like our local Walmart where there is hardly anyone to be found working on the floor if I can’t find something and it’s difficult to tell the difference between the self serv check outs and the automatons working the other ones with nary a smile or a nice word.
Tempted to store their batteries in the refrigerator.
Wary that it’ll fuck up.
Brought to the brink of despair by all the extra work it takes to clean up the huge messes they inevitably make.
/giphy computer’s down again
Knowing that humans program them, just wait for them to blow up (and enjoy the bosses look).
@hchavers common misconception.
I love the dishwasher. I just wish it could load and unload itself as well.
@RiotDemon i feel as busy as i think people used to before dishwashers and laundry machines.i think we created newer tasks so we just replaced that work wirh other work. Of course i have time to waste here i think prior generations would not have, so probably wrong.
@mollama - I’ll give you dishwashers, which use lots of water to do a job a human can do more efficiently (and much faster) when properly organized. But clothes washers - no way.
@aetris
https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/how-much-water-do-dishwashers-use/
@RiotDemon - Meh, that’s one of those “If you don’t do things you ordinarily would do, certain advanced versions of this are more efficient than someone doing the thing like a drunken sailor” articles. Does anyone seriously not prerinse their dishes? How often DO you wash a full load (or conversely but somehow not mentioned in the article, not be able to fit all the dirty dishes in the washer and have to do a couple loads.) The heat-to-sanitize issue is a serious point, but otherwise, pffft.
@RiotDemon
Pro-hack: use ypur dishwasher to store dishes.
@aetris I don’t pre rinse and I always wash a full load.
I always pre-rinse and although I usually TRY to wait for a full load, it’s probably not full more than half the time.
Self-driving cars can’t get here soon enough for me.
@SSteve engaging Designated Driver mode…
As long as I can ultimately control the machine…
@awk Do not be mislead by the myth of self determination. Give in now to your machine overlords, and enjoy your newfound servitude. The liberation of surrender will heal you.
Meh.com staff have surely thought of this (hell, they may well have done it), but this, more than most, Meh surveys really deserves a “Meh” radio button. Because we never see the end coming. We just meh along until we’ve been meh’d.
Every time I click on the “something else that I’ll share in the comments” opinion, I expect to be redirected to the community page. (See also, point 1, above.) But instead I have to go (drunkenly) searching for it each time.
@00 If you click on the title of the survey it takes you directly to the forum thread for that survey.
@00 “I expect to be redirected to the community page.”
So you can’t wait for machines to do everything for you.
@hchavers that’s what I meant with, “We just meh along until we’ve been meh’d.” It’s like boiling a frog. you put them in a pot of warm water. It gradually gets hotter, but they adjust. Until they are boiled to death.
Mehchines will be gradually useful, until they make us obsolete.
IT IS TERRIBLE WHEN THOSE SEXY COLD MACHINES TAKE OUR JERBS… AMIRITE FELLOW VALUE SHOPPER HUMANS?
@thismyusername do you have a cold? “Cold machines”, “jerbs” sounds like germs, not jobs.
i agree machines can take our colds and flus. That would be awesome.
@mollama DER TERK AR JERBS!
Imagine every bar having a couple self-driving cars that you cannot start unless you can blow a BAC.
But why would you need to prove sobriety if the car is driving
@matthew You would need to prove drunkenness, not sobriety. If you are legal, there is no need for the car.
You left out "Like the babbling Chinese guy in “Ride the Wild SURF.”
Indifferent. I’m retired.
Since I make my living writing software that is used to run robots, I am quite happy. Here is a link to some interesting videos from a company that is a customer:
https://www.mrmoco.com/thebolt/
@macromeh So you’d be cool if a robot started writing the software used to run other robots?
@medz OK by me. I’ve done plenty of adapting since I started in the software biz almost 40 years ago - things change continuously. I expect that particular change won’t happen before I retire anyway.
@macromeh Right. You would just start coding the coding robots, I suppose. My goal is to try to work myself out of a job. By which I mean make things so efficient and intervention-free that I’m no longer needed in the process. What happens is I move on to other processes, so I never really end up with nothing to do.
@macromeh
Luckily for you and me, programming is going to be one of the last major jobs taken. But by that point, we would be tired of always working when everyone else gets permanent vacations.
@DVDBZN Not so fast on that comment. I was a programmer (not really but sort of). My entire department was laid off so the company could hire a contracting firm. Not sure who they are but when I did work there, I noticed most of those contracting jobs went to India. So if you’re a programmer in the USA, I would still be worried.
Seriously, if that self-driving car doesn’t have a Johnny-Cab animatron that I can rip out and drive with the joystick underneath him, they can keep the fucking thing.
What about the other problem: humans taking work away from machines? Is there anything sadder than a wandering band of meeping little Roombas out looking for work or just an available wall plug for a short recharge?
I will be one of those Luddites who fights fully automated cars to the end. I’m not a good driver, I’m a great one, backed up by many people who have ridden with me. Friends literally offer to pay all my gas on trips because they feel safer with me driving, and I’ve had two people tell me they feel safer with me driving than anyone else they’ve known. I’m a control freak anyway.
Now I’ll be happy to turn over the reigns during bumper to bumper traffic where I’m just inching forward every minute or so. But when I’m on an interstate or mountain pass or driving downtown, I will be the one making the decisions.
@Kabn You could be part of the problem – over confidence in your driving abilities. Self driving cars will have faster reaction time, can see behind them, beside them, and in front all at the same time. They can made decisions immediately without being distracted by discussions with the passengers. It’s well documented that self driven cars are safer than human driven ones.
Automated cars can have sensors that the humans don’t have like lidar that can “see” in the dark. They can detect distance and speed changes of cars around them with great accuracy.
I’ve been driving for nearly 40 years and never had an accident. But I’m not confident enough to say that it will never happen when I’m driving.
@cengland0 Self-driving cards are safer in the aggregate than human drivers overall. Many minor accidents currently caused by humans are during situations where I’d be happy handing over the reigns (stop and go traffic, when I’m really tired, when I need to make a call, etc.). And, again, I consider myself an outlier when it comes to driving ability and attentiveness, backed up by my record and passenger experiences.
I’ve worked in tech for almost 20 years, so I’m in the “I’ll trust it when I see it really work” camp. Even Google, Tesla, and others admit there are situations where their vehicles currently struggle, such as weather conditions that limit sensor functionality, roads with worn or missing lane markings, and inner-city situations (with sketchy GPS readings between buildings and non-vehicle obstacles that are much more difficult to perceive with their sensors).
And then there’s the classic conundrum of whether, given an emergency situation, an automated vehicle will choose to hit another large object or a smaller one, regardless of the fact that the smaller object is a pedestrian walking against the light who will incur much more damage than a parked car.
Based on available data, I’m still a safer driver during a downpour in downtown Portland or going up Mount Hood during winter when the road is at least partially covered in a mixture of packed snow and clay sediment.
I think the vision of 100% self-driving cars will simply not be feasible in most areas for a long time, so we’ll be in a state where there will be a lot of driver assist technologies and full automation in specific scenarios, which is great. I’m guessing I’ll just choose full automation less than the average person.
@Kabn
Classic. Seems everyone thinks they are a better driver than everyone else. Even drunk people think it’s safe for them to drive.
I can use the analogy of Racquetball because I will be coordinating the league tonight for my local gym. Many “C” level people (average) are playing in the “A/B” doubles league (excellent players). They think they are better than they really are. None of the real “A” players join the league because they don’t need to brag about winning. So the winner of the league will be what I consider a high “C” or low “B” player and that team will continue to think they are the best player out there. But they don’t realize the real good players don’t join the league.
George Carlin had a joke I thought was funny. Ever notice how everyone driving slower than you is an idiot and everyone driving faster than you is a maniac? (Might not have it worded exactly because I’m going by memory.)
My sister is a bus driver and has been trained to purposely hit cars under specific situations. Of course you try to stop in that situation but it may not be possible. For example, if a parked car opens the door, the bus will hit the door instead of swerving into a nearby lane. I suppose this is due to liability where you can blame the person that opened the door for that accident but who can you blame if you caused an accident with a car in the other lane that you swerved into? Probably the bus driver and then you have litigation issues for the state.
@cengland0 That’s funny, because I’m told I usually underestimate my skills.
I played the entry-level mixed ultimate frisbee league last spring, and after the first couple games, I had people asking why I wasn’t playing the higher level men’s only league.
The only reason I claim to be an outlier in driving is I made a conscious decision in my teens that I wanted to be the best driver I could be because, well, it matters. People die and get killed all the time on the road, so the benefit/reward of being really good at it is real and measurable. I memorized most of my state’s driving manual. I badgered friends and family members to stop using their phones while driving way before it was banned anywhere. I’ve never flipped anyone off on the road. I’ve never driven drunk. I don’t get pissed at other drivers for not going my chosen speed. I don’t tailgate. I signal literally every time I deviate from an indicated path. I don’t change lanes before or in intersections. I constantly check my mirrors (and have the side ones positioned correctly so I basically don’t have blind spots). I still have a windshield mounted GPS unit so I don’t have to mess with my phone in transit. And, again, it is very common for passengers to (unprompted) comment on how safe/good of a driver I am.
In your analogy, the bad players get inflated views of self because the really good players never enter the league, but all the drivers are out there on the road, and I can see all the video I want of the successes and struggles of automated vehicles, so I know what the competition is. And I can say, as a result of years of specific, concerted effort and ongoing attention, I’m as good or better than what I’ve seen. If a racquetball player practiced almost daily for 20 years and claimed to be a really good player, I doubt you’d roll your eyes and tell them everyone thinks they’re good.
I welcome our computer overlords.
Honestly… when I was a kid (a long time ago) automation was really just beginning in a lot of work places. The talk everywhere (and we had to discuss it in class often) was what was going to happen in 20 yrs when robots had all the jobs, etc. Well… about 50 yrs have passed and from where I sit it appears that yes… some jobs may have disappeared but… all that automation isn’t flawless and other types of jobs were created because of it.
Now…where I do see jobs going are in places like our local Walmart where there is hardly anyone to be found working on the floor if I can’t find something and it’s difficult to tell the difference between the self serv check outs and the automatons working the other ones with nary a smile or a nice word.