Shopping for a new phone, spending $400 or less. Recommendations?

@Barney Baby steps! You’ve got yourself a nice box. Maybe next year get a charger. Before you know it, you’ll be sporting a fancy purple phone!

@ruouttaurmind That’s what worries me, I don’t want to go over to the dark side.

Aw gee, I love purple…

@Barney At least you have a nice iPhone box.

@heartny Yes, that’s more than a lot of people have.

@Barney I got Mom a basic phone from one of those carriers who specializes in a… more mature customer base. It makes calls, and receives calls, and that’s it. Sometimes simpler is betterer!

@ruouttaurmind

@ruouttaurmind I think @Barney should first get a purple otterbox or something. Then she can put her flip phone or a phone like the one you posted inside that and look cool without going to the dark side.

@Kidsandliz @ruouttaurmind Better than that, I’ve been flashing people with my new iPhone box. They’re pretty impressed.

@Barney

@ruouttaurmind I am sure you shared this before, but who, please?? my mil is without a phone and I don’t have the mental capacity to teach her how to operate a smart phone…

@PlacidPenguin I have a 64GB iPhone. With my apps, about 80 audiobooks, a few hundred pics and a couple movies loaded, and have 38GB free. Is 128GB overkill? IIRC, Pixel doesn’t have SD expansion capability, so more is better, but maybe 128 is buying more than I will conceivably use during the lifetime of the phone?

@ruouttaurmind

From what I understand, the system partition on 64GB iPhone would take up roughly 5GB.

Out of the remaining 59GB, if you have 38G free, so you’re using approximately 21GB.

On my 32GB Pixel, the system partition takes up 6.6GB (the Pixel uses A/B partitioning, which is honestly nice), so I have 25.4GB free.

If you’re using 21GB, then yes, you should be fine.

@PlacidPenguin @ruouttaurmind

Agreed. Pixel pixel pixel.

Also that way you get a long future of OS updates.
With many otherwise branded Android phones you don’t.

@f00l @PlacidPenguin @ruouttaurmind I agree! I just bought a Pixel 2 XL 64 GB and absolutely love it. I thought it might be too big for my small hands and rare pockets, but it’s not. It’s very thin (without a case) and not too bad with the Speck I have on it now. Hardly any bloatware (I bought it at Verizon.)

Super fast and the camera is unbelievable good.

@ruouttaurmind

Was thinking about going to a store to play with this phone.

Have not decided yet.

(Side note: You can save an additional $75 by not getting the phone through Amazon.)

@zedmanauk @PlacidPenguin I’ve never heard of this, but after visiting Essential’s product page, I’m impressed at the specs for $400. And pure Android. The only question is about OS upgrades and how long Essential will be around.

But Snapdragon 835 octa-core, 4GB RAM, 128GB storage, 5.7” frameless display, titanium and ceramic construction… if it had proximity charging it would probably be a instabuy. Quite a bit of phone for the price.

@PlacidPenguin Found the Essential for $293 at Amz (Warehouse Deals, used/like new). They have it in white or black. No Halo Gray.

Now I have to compare to Pixel XL.

@PlacidPenguin BTW, I missed this part last night:

(Side note: You can save an additional $75 by not getting the phone through Amazon.)

Where can you get it for $325?

@ruouttaurmind

Believe it was on Swappa.

New phone, but slightly damaged box.

Bought one at release to play with and was very impressed. The look and feel is on par with my iPhone X. If the magnetic accessories connection is supported there could be future bonuses here too. I thought I’d be using the 360 camera snap-on more but my interest waned. OS support should be great but agree that longer term risk is where the company goes from here.

@zedmanauk love my essential phone

@ruouttaurmind Yay. Suck it, Apple!

@medz

@ruouttaurmind Wait, you found that phone for $300?

@MrMark perhaps via amazon warehouse deals (used/refurb)

@MrMark

There’s a listing on Amazon for $339.99 used, but 20% off.

/image Apple I fixed it

@MrMark Amz Warehouse “Like New”. After 20% off it was about $290 plus tax with free same day shipping. The price is what tipped me over the line to buy.

@ruouttaurmind Ah I see that now. That is tempting…

@MrMark All that performance for less than three hundy. I couldn’t find anything else that came close to the price/performance.

@PlacidPenguin “Fingerprint randomizer”. That’s an accurate description of fingerprint access on my iPhone. The PH-1 biometric is working exceptionally well. First time every time.

@PlacidPenguin @ruouttaurmind
For the privacy concerned: police can compel you to touch your phone to unlock it. They cannot compel you to disclose a password or pattern. Your 5th amendment rights are not protected with biometrics.
Also, once in your phone, police can use it as a 2-factor device to access any ‘related’ information. i.e. your phone contents -contacts, pictures, browser/app caches are considered just like another ‘room’ in your home and their contents ‘in plain sight’.

‘Your person and your papers’ are not as secure as you think.

@mike808 @ruouttaurmind

Look at the description for the lockdown option.

@PlacidPenguin @ruouttaurmind
Not following what lockdown option means.
If it is set to fingerprint, they can just try it and see if it works. Doesn’t matter if the phone doesn’t hint that your fingerprint will unlock the phone.

@mike808 @ruouttaurmind

It disables Smart Unlock and fingerprint access when the phone is locked via lockdown.

@PlacidPenguin @ruouttaurmind
So what, exactly, replaces it if fingerprint unlock is disabled? An unclear fallback method? Is fp layered on top of PIN, password, or swipe pattern?

To me ‘disable’ implies no authentication is needed - e.g. ‘swipe to unlock’ or -press any button’ to unlock.

Not exactly ‘secure’.

@mike808 @ruouttaurmind

When it’s disabled, I’m asked for my lock screen password.

@PlacidPenguin @ruouttaurmind
Nice. This might be my next phone. Most phones treat fp as an equal to the other phone lock mechanisms - it is a ‘pick one’ choice, not an ‘add this’ choice.

i.e. if you have fp auth enabled, PIN/pattern auth are disabled, and vice versa. You can’t pick priority or require multiple factors.

I would like to have, say PIN for my unlock, but that means fp is disabled everywhere else and cant be used in apps.

Does it have NFC?

@mike808 @ruouttaurmind

That screenshot is from the Android P developer preview.

I’m using a Pixel, though I’d imagine that that it will be on other phones, especially if they’re using close to vanilla Android (which is different than what the Pixel uses).

And yeah, if I have smart unlock disabled, I can use my fingerprint OR password.

@mike808

Also, once in your phone, police can use it as a 2-factor device to access any ‘related’ information. i.e. your phone contents -contacts, pictures, browser/app caches are considered just like another ‘room’ in your home and their contents ‘in plain sight’.

I’m all in favor of personal privacy. But in this case it’s a matter of privacy vs. convenience. I unlock and access my phone 100% more often than I have incriminating information contained therein.

So, ya, while I don’t love the idea of “the authorities” digging through my crap, the truth is, that’s what they’ll find. Crap. Nothing of interest or value. So for me, giving up that bit of privacy to gain convenience as I unlock my phone a few dozen times per day is a fair trade.

@ruouttaurmind I understand the tradeoff, too. It sucks that consumers dont have any better options. Free market, my ass. And then there are the devices and apps universal non-negotiable onerous and invasive EULAs and non/anti-privacy ‘privacy policy’.

Separately, for another thread, the idea that you don’t care (much) about privacy because you have nothing to hide is a bit like saying the first amendment doesn’t matter because you don’t have anything important to say.

@mike808

Don’t misunderstand. I care very much about my privacy. But it must be mitigated against day to day life. In my case, I choose the potential risk to that part of my privacy in favor of convenience. And armed with the knowledge of risk, I use my device accordingly.

@ruouttaurmind we are in vehement agreement. It’s a trade off. I would prefer that the market supported better options is all.

Any word on if the Essential PH-1 has NFC?

@mike808 @ruouttaurmind

Yes, there’s NFC.

@PlacidPenguin @ruouttaurmind
Nice. Amazing whorehouse deal alerts are on. Fucking spell pecker.

@mike808 As @PlacidPenguin has already confirmed, it does support NFC. Though I don’t use it for anything. I have heard I can use a phone with NFC to reset the filament counter on my Da Vinci 3D printer, so eventually I’ll get around to trying that.

@djslack

There have been phones from Nokia.

@djslack @PlacidPenguin Nokia claims to provide a stock Android experience. Unfortunately they’ve become such a non-entity there aren’t many options for cases and screen protectors.

@djslack @PlacidPenguin @ruouttaurmind They’re actually quite good. The size of an iPhone plus for a few hundred bucks. I have the 5, and it’s plenty fast. Camera isn’t super amazing, but that’s my only gripe. At the price, expected.

Here’s the 6:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B4KPFKM

If you don’t mind Android, a great pick.

But don’t sleep on the iPhone SE either. Should get an update in the next four or five months. If you can wait and don’t mind small, that’s your IOS winner.

@medz

Do you have a spare HTC Dream battery?

@PlacidPenguin sorry, no

@medz

Sheesh Medge. That doesn’t really help me.

@medz I’m paying about $14/mo on MintSIM for unlimited talk/txt and 2GB data. It’s difficult to imagine another carrier offering enough savings to make it worth the effort of switching.

I had a Galaxy S4, but that UI… puh.

@medz @ruouttaurmind Can you share a link for that carrier?

@rtjhnstn MintSIM.com

@PlacidPenguin I do have some Motorola Razr batteries.

@ruouttaurmind looks like mint is $15/month for 3 months then $23/month after that. How you get that $14 rate, bruh? Edit: ah, you buy a year worth?

@medz @PlacidPenguin I see your Razr batteries and raze you 4 StarTAC batteries.

@medz @ruouttaurmind I just transferred my phone over to MintSim. It was not an easy process but if the service is decent it will be worth the effort. Do you use a lot of service or are you more of a minimalist user? I am a little bit scared of using too much.

@medz

Edit: ah, you buy a year worth?

Yup, bought a 1 yr. plan. I’m in my second year with them. The first year was $12/mo after a promo code. Even at $15, it’s probably one of the best deals available right now on MVNO service. They’re on the Tmo network, so my LTE is pretty peppy.

@cf1 I use my phone quite a bit, but most of my existence is in a wifi world. Office, home, where I spend most of my life, my phone is connected to my wifi networks. I typically use a couple hundred megabytes per month out of my MintSIM data allowance… I’m on the 2GB/month plan, so about 10%.

Don’t forget, if you do use up all your data allowance, your not dead in the water. They just slow down your data speed until your next monthly cycle begins. Then you start fresh with a new data allowance.

@cf1 On Project Fi, my last 6 months looks like this: (in GB)
phone data / tethered devices
0.66 / 1.26
0.61 / 2.31
0.59 / 1.29
0.98 / 0
2.41 / 0.04
0.95 / 1.6

As you see, I usually use less than 1 GB on my phone, but it only takes 1 outing where tethering is required to placate our child to use a good chunk of my plan data.

My wifi usage on my phone, however, is over 30 GB each month. So, I’m usually a minimalist data user when it comes to not having wifi.

If you are around a lot of wifi and you don’t plan on tethering devices, 2 GB should probably get you by.

@medz @ruouttaurmind I do have wifi at work so I can save some there. I have dialup at home but Verizon has degraded my line enough that I can’t use it right now. I am a little leery about using the phone as a hotspot. I’m kind of new to having a non-burner cell phone and am trying to figure out how to keep out of trouble.

@cf1 If you will be using your cell data as a primary Internet at home, an unlimited plan somewhere may be the way to go. You could probably drop the dialup to save some cash to compensate for the price of an unlimited cell data plan.
I don’t know about mint, but Project Fi will charge the same rate for data ($10 per each extra GB) if you go over your plan rate. I think it caps out at $60 and then you may notice reduced speeds.

Edit - Pro tip: any system updates, photo backups, or app installs should be done over your work wifi.

@cf1 if you do decide to tether and have windows 10, make sure you set it up as a metered connection so it doesn’t download giant updates without you knowing.

@cf1 @medz You can add extra data at MintSIM. $10 for 1GB or $20 for 3GB

EDIT: You also have the option of upgrading to a higher data plan if you wish, simply by paying the difference in cost. As @medz suggest, can the Verizon plan at home, and use that cost savings to upgrade to the 10GB plan if you keep running out of data. Remember: running out of data doesn’t cost you anything, and you don’t lose data connectivity. They simply slow down your data speed until the next monthly cycle begins and you get more high speed data allowance.

Also, MintSIM doesn’t charge extra for hotspot capability. If your phone supports it, you can turn it on at home and have wifi for other devices.

@medz I actually have been using the wifi out in front of our pool area to check email and download updates. And look for a new job. joy joy

@cf1 @medz

Ugh. Now I’m required to post this:

@medz @PlacidPenguin Ha ha! I am pretty sure I did not know where that came from. That is pretty obnoxious.

@cf1 @narfcake

So was the show.

@smigit2002 Daily Steals is offering the S8 for $400, but it’s a B grade. As logical as I am about most things, I cannot get beyond spending that kind of dosh for a dinged up gadget. I know, I know… a ding or scratch doesn’t affect functionality, but…
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@ruouttaurmind @smigit2002 I love my S8+, but I get what you mean about putting out that kind of cash for a beat up phone. But I also loved my S6, and that can be purchased well below your spending limit. A couple of years back I bought a refurbed one on wOOt for my daughter well below that price. It is still working perfectly and looked like new.

@mfladd My previous experience with Samsung: They are too quick to abandon legacy devices and isn’t even all that keen on OS updates for current devices. Unless that’s changed, I probably would only consider a Samsung if I tripped into a special bargain.

@mfladd @ruouttaurmind Yeah, I do see how it’d be hard to spend that much money and not get a pristine phone. Phone’s are very personal pieces of gear, they’re with you all the time, you use them all the time. You’ll notice any minor blemish every time you touch the device. You don’t need to spend a fortune, but it’s not irrational to want something nice and in nice condition for your money.

@mike808 A week ago I picked up a $15 ZTE at Wallyworld. This was sort of an experiment to see if I was ready to jump back on Android from iOS.

16GB definitely wouldn’t be enough for my needs though. I need a minimum of 32, ideally 64 or more.

@mike808 Huawei = Govt of China. Really, that was its origin. And it got its start reverse engineering other-country technology.

@ruouttaurmind I think Best Buy has the Huawei Mate (a more featured model) also on a similar sale, possibly unlocked IIRC, in your budget.

@RedOak So what? American companies shipped jobs overseas for cheaper prices. And they’re pocketing 98% of the tax breaks the idiots in Washington swindled the taxpayers out of. Why should I give a frak?

Capitalism doesn’t guarantee a company survives. Just like people, they can die. You can’t have your economy both ways - globalism or protectionism, but just the one that favors your tribe. Cry me a river.

Make the argument that the Korean-made Samsung doesn’t have the same problem you say exists for Huawei or that the US corporate-owned (because their software development, parts sourcing, assembly, and other businesses/subsidiaries aren’t also US-based) somehow have $700 more tangible utility, and thus, value?

Please. You’re being sold a load of lies by the corporatist oligarch kleptocrats. You buy your $800 phone. I have more important things to to with the $735 I can spend on something else.

And you’ll buy everything else from China (hoverboards?) but draw the line at a phone? Or more precisely, you want to tell me how I should be spending my money on a phone. Freedom, bruh! Murica!

If you want to buy me a flagship US made phone with your money, then I’m happy to recieve as many as you’re willing to put your money where your mouth is. Just not mine.

@mike808

Woah. Intense?

Yes, good points.

But I suspect @RedOak’s point may have been directed elsewhere.

@f00l @mike808 woah, is right - how does one function and benefit with such bitterness at the system that created their comfortable life conditions? (Surely, it must have been a sarcastic response)

My comment had nothing at all to do with where a phone is made. Huawei Isn’t simply a Chinese-based company - even local Chinese folks joke Huawei is the govt. It was created by the govt with a mandate to reverse engineer western network equipment.

@mike808

flagship US made phone

I don’t believe there are any phones still made in the USA. Apple was assembling phones in the US, but the components were imported. I think they even moved final assy overseas (last year maybe?).

Motorola was assembling the X in the US, but even that was sent overseas.

I am unaware of any that are still Made In USA.

@ruouttaurmind

< gentle nudge >

Supposed to be half-mast today in honor and memory of FL BPB.

/image half mast US flag

@f00l @RedOak But your comment was to somehow imply that Huawei phones were ‘less than’ all of the unnamed other suggestions.

My point was that for $35 out of pocket, that represents extraordinary value to the OP’s question of Android phones under $400. And corporate ownership just isn’t a factor in anyone’s consumer/commodity purchase decisions. It isn’t even a capitalist factor - price is all that matters. If you want to say non-price factors mayter, then lets disuss climate change, renewable energy, living wage, environmental damage, universal and single-payer healthcare, gender and racial pay/healthcare privilege. As long as you are saying that something other than price and features in the OP’s question should influence other people’s purchase decisions.

Show me any similarly featered alternative - for under $100 - that doesn’t “suffer” from similar government subsidies you are so displeased with. FYI - that is exactly what corporate tax breaks are - corporate entitlements.

The US is the only country that doesn’t have ‘captured industry’. So, China isn’t that unusual if you want to put down your Made-in-Murica rose colored glasses.

Get woke, bruh.

@mike808

Please. You’re being sold a load of lies by the corporatist oligarch kleptocrats. You buy your $800 phone. I have more important things to to with the $735 I can spend on something else.

I understand your intent but do not agree 100% with the specificity of this statement.

Your $35 phone likely works very well for your purposes, and I fully support your choice to own/use whatever hardware works best for your use/budget, regardless of point of origin.

Different people use their devices in various ways. For my purposes, your $35 Huawei would be more frustration that productivity. I spend a fair amount of time on my phone running multiple apps, switching frequently between 2, 3 even 4 apps in a continuous session. More RAM and a faster processor minimize app launching time, switching time between apps, lags while using apps (particularly if there are background processes happening like push notifications, incoming email, etc).

A $700 flagship phone has a degree of bloat in the price just because it’s a Samsung or Apple, just because it’s the flagship, just because it’s the next big thing. But it also has a much more powerful processor, more ram, brighter and higher density and larger display, faster GPU and RAM, much more internal storage, much more featured camera, more durable construction materials, etc.

Specifically, comparing your Huawei Elate to a $800 Samsung Galaxy S9+ (Samsung’s latest top of the line).

Processor
Elate: Snapdragon 435 Octo
S9+: Snapdragon 845 Octo

RAM
Elate: 2GB
S9+: 6GB

Storage
Elate: 16GB
S9+: 128GB

Display
Elate: 5.5", 720x1280 res. 267ppi
S9+: 6.2", 1440 x 2960 res, 529ppi

These are just a few of the many major differences between the two models. Again, I have no doubt your phone works well for your purposes, but others have different uses for a phone. Beyond a toy, many use a phone as a productivity tool, and benefit from those upgraded specifications.

@mike808 @RedOak

Get woke?

Ok. Sure.

But your comment was to somehow imply that Huawei phones were ‘less than’ all of the unnamed other suggestions.

@RedOak’s comment had various legit and possibly strongly supported (and certainly not contradicted by content) interpretations. One could choose…

Some of these interpretations had nothing to do with your argument as offered.

(Your argument was quite good, but so intense it almost undercut itself. And it assumed the legitimacy of only one possible interpretation of @RedOak’s comment. [From my perspective, speaking as a mental flea on the issue of smartphones.])

But sure. I’ll work on getting woke.

<Nothing against getting woke at all. Nothing.>

@mike808 How do you get out of bed every day?
Head shake & shoulder shrug.

@f00l

RedOak’s comment had various legit and possibly strongly supported (and certainly not contradicted by content) interpretations. One could choose…

I chose to let RedOak explain for all of us what his intended interpretation was. That he offered none is implicit confirmation that my interpretation was, in fact, correct. He intended to disparage the choice of a Huawei phone based on its direct government support, while not doing so on that same basis for other companies or countries.

I merely called out the hipocracy for what it was to allow the reader to apply a more complete and informed context to RedOak’s nationalistic dog-whistle comment.

If you work with classified or sensitive information where your personal phone presents a risk to your employer, then that’s a problem your employer shouldn’t be putting the solution to entirely onto you to be responsible for.

The phones operate via US carriers. If the US carriers cannot control their network to prevent China/Huawei/ZTE, Korea/Samsung/HTC, India/whoever, etc, from making unauthorized access or exfiltration of data with your personal phone, how is that any of us’s problem (or responsibility) as consumers?

There’s way more fail going on here if national security comes down to what phone you or I choose at Best buy or order off Amazon. And I don’t accept RedOak’s premise that it somehow does, for any and all of the reasons I stated.

@RedOak How do you go through the entire day and not even try to reduce the ignorance in the world, not even a little bit?

You can’t contribute to solving a problem when you are willfully ignorant of its existence.

That is the entire point of ‘wokeness’.

@mike808 you don’t appear to be open to hearing another postion so I won’t waste your time nor mine.

@RedOak You’ve been free to present your position at any point. Nothing holding you back. I’ve already bought this phone, so I’m not sure I’m the one you feel you are unable to convince of your position, whatever that may be.

The $35 Huawei Elate (per Best Buy sale) remains an extraordinary value that meets all the needs the OP asked for. I represent that it is amply qualified for consideration.

I don’t care if anyone chooses something else, but I do care if they might, based on your implied and unsubstantiated claims that a Huawei phone shouldn’t be considered (because … reasons?).

@ruouttaurmind

Specifically, comparing your Huawei Elate to a $800 Samsung Galaxy S9+ (Samsung’s latest top of the line).

That’s not what you asked for in your OP.

In the $400 range, the Huawei Honor X is the more comparable model - based only on price. I’m not so sure that the Elate wouldn’t be adequate for your needs. The only point missed is the unlocked part, but paying $300 more to save 30 days (before unlocking on Cricket) doesn’t sound like a good deal to me.

Since I have one, is there some sort of android performance benchmark app I can run and post the results? I’m actually curious, so is there such an app?

@mike808

How about AnTuTu?

@PlacidPenguin @ruouttaurmind
I’ll run it and the Futuremark on the Huawei and my S5 for grins and post.

@mike808

I chose to let RedOak explain for all of us what his intended interpretation was. That he offered none is implicit confirmation that my interpretation was, in fact, correct.

Uh …

I would have to ask to be sure, but I would imagine that just about everyone I know who is pretty solid, socially and intellectually, at argument (by the standards of reasonably to highly respectable relevant career achievements in fields involving specs, precise language, reason/logic, weighted POV’s, argument, and persuasiveness) might quibble with that.

There are many reasons to speak further, and many reasons not to speak further, in both casual and work/critical environments.
Depends in the situations, the settings, the people, and what’s going on. Complexities.

Often all those varieties of reasons for varieties of choices are all kinda pretty damned good.
So … judgment calls.

Or perhaps my standards and understandings suck. Whatever. I’m willing to be the mental flea. I have a natural gift for the role.

As for reducing ignorance …

There is “reducing ignorance”.

And then there is “reducing ignorance”.

Ways and means, ways and means.

Sometimes a light touch and a soft pitch are far more persuasive and convincing than a sledgehammer.
(and these humbler approaches can rationally and logically possess this extra effectiveness.)

Again. Complexities.
Again. Judgment calls.

@ruouttaurmind

A week ago I picked up a $15 ZTE at Wallyworld

Ain’t ZTE about to lose access to the play store? Or does that not apply to devices already shipped?

@f00l Dunno. First I’ve heard of this.

@f00l Just read the deets on this. It potentially affects the entire Android OS, not just Google Play, but it would be limited to new devices, not existing devices already in use.

@njack26 I see I can get into a G5s Plus for under $200 without much shopping, and maybe closer to $150 if I look for refurb or grade A used. Not quite the horsepower I was hoping for, and Moto doesn’t seem to rollout much in the way of OS updates, but for less than half my original target budget, it’s worth considering.

@ruouttaurmind Yeah. The G5 series are confirmed to get updates to Oreo … but then again, they’ve been saying that about the G4 series too.

@MrMark I noticed that earlier this morning. I checked the specs and the 6 doesn’t look like it’s gonna add that much to the 5.

@Felton10 That’s one of the devices on my short list. I’ve located it for under $200. The specs aren’t terribly impressive, but that price is surely attractive.

@ruouttaurmind Had it for 6 months now-sure the price dropped with the newer models coming out. Ran rings around my 2 yr old HTC M9.

@PlacidPenguin

What’s the fun in that?

@PlacidPenguin Pixel is out. Px2 is too pricey. So far it’s down to:

• Essential PH-1
• Razer Phone
• Moto G5s Plus (mostly price)
• Nokia 6 (again, price)

As I research further into those models, they either move up the list, or get dropped. Also, I’m still searching for other options as well. For example, if a bargain on a Px2 or GalS8+ or some such falls into my lap, I’ll just commit.

@mike808 Good tip. I’ve used this tool before when shopping, but forgot all about it. Thanks for the reminder!

@mike808 They’re bully for the Motorola stuff. X and G5. Interestingly, they chose the G5 vs G5s.

I was hoping to see more options offered, and more comparison. They basically give two Motorola choices in the US (cheap and really cheap), and a HTC for Europe.

@PlacidPenguin Doesn’t seem much like an upgrade to the current models, and in some ways, they’ve downgraded.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@narfcake

While Motorola under Google did not go in the direction many people had hoped (with the exception of the Moto X customizations), under Lenovo, things have just been REALLY bad.

@PlacidPenguin My first tablet was a Motorola Xoom. Shipped with Honeycomb, which was already out of date by the time product was shipping. Motorola pushed one security update, and that was that

After months of effort, and having to join the Motorola developer program, I finally got an update from to Jelly Bean. And that was EOL. The only good thing about OS on that Xoom was the bone stock UI.

@PlacidPenguin And yet, they’re still not the worse when it comes to updates.

@ruouttaurmind IIRC, Xoom was pre-Google buyout.

At least it’s not Blackberry. You’ll get BB10 upgrades! You’ll get BB10 upgrades! Oh, nope, you won’t!

@narfcake

Doesn’t seem much like an upgrade to the current models, and in some ways, they’ve downgraded.

They’re sticking to their guns on the low-res displays for sure. 720p and 1080p on the G6 models. Absolutely nothing remarkable between the G5 lineup and the new G6 phones.

@ruouttaurmind

Personally not a fan of certain Android websites, though I’m not gonna say (publicly) my thoughts about Droid Life (regardless of if they’re good thoughts or not).

@ruouttaurmind For sure.

@thismyusername

There’s immense hope that with Treble, updates will be a bit easier, especially when it comes to non-Pixel devices.

---

At the worst, ROMs have it significantly easier, since many phones with Treble compatibility have been able to mostly work with a generic compilation of source code as well as some minor adjustments.

---

But I digress.

@thismyusername I get the impression Pixel updates occur with similar regularly to Apple’s (except they usually work)? Legacy support was one of the key factors which motivated my switch to Apple two years ago. Then iOS 10…

@PlacidPenguin imo anything older than a nexus 5x that is not running an updated custom rom at this point is a portable security nightmare.

@thismyusername

I should check the security patches of my Nexus 5, Galaxy S3, and Nexus 7 2013.

(The HTC Dream doesn’t work, My Nexus S got taken apart, and my Nexus 5X was sold after it was repaired by LG.)

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Side note:

https://www.androidpolice.com/2018/04/12/phones-android-security-patches-may-not-date-think/

@ruouttaurmind yea they have tended to keep it 1 year apart with the pixels… pixel 1 oct 2016, then pixel 2 oct 2017, so that why we are guessing pixel 3 oct 2018… they supposedly will have 3 models this year.

The prices do drop more on the older models of pixels/nexuses unlike with iphone however.

samsung and the other guys do have cool phones, but you will always have their bloat on top… plus they tend to ‘forget’ to update them after they release a new one.

@thismyusername

I believe by updates, @ruouttaurmind was talking about software updates, not hardware.

@PlacidPenguin if that is the case then they should refer back to the start of this thread…

if you want timely updates to keep the phone secure like you used to get with the iphone and a clean/stock phone your choices are pretty limited… you want one that is sold by google.

@rkess88 I appreciate your thoughts. This is exactly the kind of stuff I was soliciting.

@rkess88 @ruouttaurmind I’m sort of in a fringe area and LG will constantly drop calls here. As will Samsung. My niece used to work for Verizon and at that time she told us to get Motorolas as they had the best radio card in them and just got better signals. She was right. Since switching, we’ve never had a prob.

@rkess88 @ruouttaurmind I love my LGs… I have a Stylo 2 – and am upgrading to a LG Tribute this weekend. My complaints with LGs in general: are the batteries get verrrry warm (read hot); this specific model, I think is too big for me, but would do fine for you – the built in stylus was nice! (I am technically downgrading to a smaller phone, I guess)

I missed the loop bricking on bootup versions of the phones

My kids love samsung…

@mikibell

In terms of hardware, that seems like a downgrade though.

@PlacidPenguin yes, and I am fine with that… I need a phone that facilitates phone calls… that is it… I would like it to fit in my wallet too!

@mikibell

(Just noticed this.)

Ah. Okay.

@bdb

Except, starting with Marshmallow, you could manage permissions without root.

While apps which target API 23+ will only request permission for permissions as you try using different functions, apps which target lower APIs can still have their permissions controlled after installation.

@bdb

Because Google will not stay out of my life

what? google lets you control every aspect of the data stored (unlike cough facebook cough cough)… check it out:

https://myaccount.google.com/intro/privacy

I have used apple forever, but they don’t honor the _nomap in ssids, and I can’t find anything like googles privacy controls/dashboards anywhere for my apple accounts. I hope with the recent facebook realizations apple will follow googles lead and unify it all in one place so its easy to opt out of it all.

That said, I still prefer my iphone to my android… apple sure knows how to build a fondleslab.

@Ozzie219

I just have to avoid patching it as that turns it all back on.

And we wonder why phones get targeted for malware… Got XP?

Cellphones are the OG Internet-of-Things and even have secure update capabilities, but even that, the US corporate overlords had to screw up for all of us (via bloatware, selling next year’s model). (Shout out to @RedOak )

@Ozzie2191 P.S. still rocking an S5.
I disabled the AT&T bloatware, and have to do so after each upgrade, but AT&T has EOL’d it. The bigger problem is disabling all the Google Android ecosystem I don’t use and that also update through the Play store and eat my system memory because they can’t update the firmware version AT&T locked in.

@mike808

Have you thought about rooting it?

@PlacidPenguin Yes, but I prefer to keep and use the wallet/payment features that get disabled on rooted phones.

@mike808

There are apps which can hide root for payment apps, and allow you too pass SafetyNet.

@mike808 @Ozzie2191

I just got tired of it (lack of updates, bloatware, motherboards that burn out, re-customizing after such updates as Samsung offered), and quit Samsung after the Note 4.

My old Notes 2-4 & S3 are getting slow. I use them as media players now.

@f00l here you go, a $169 bargain on a Note 4!

(BTW, I’m tapping this comment on a crappy 1-1/2 year old Samsung Tab A that randomly restarts at the most inopportune times, sometimes more than once per day… and it happens with a 40-65% full battery - never with it at 85%+. No more Samsung for us - tho we’ve been a lot more lucky with their monitors and TVs, so far.)

https://www.yugster.com/daily-deal/82116-samsung-galaxy-note-4-gsm-unlocked-5-7-screen-s-pen-adaptive-fast-charging

@f00l @RedOak

Could get it cheaper than $169, though it depends on the model.

@f00l @PlacidPenguin yah, it as a joke - can’t imagine anybody spending the money or time to light up a Note 4 at this point. It was ironic timing - read @f001’s comment and jumped out to email where the Yugster email promoted this deal.

@f00l @RedOak

Well, LineageOS 15.1 on the Note 4 probably improves things.

@zinimusprime I compared price/specs to other brands. Although the G5 models (at half the price) stack up well in their segment, the X just doesn’t deliver in the price/features/performance comparisons to other $400 phones. Smaller display, lower resolution display, older/slower processor.

@ruouttaurmind I bow to your research. Forgive me…

@lemonswithsalt I would suggesting passing too. A quick search has CNet saying:

The Ektra tries to be a great camera and a high-end phone at once, but it’s not great at being either.

@lemonswithsalt

I kind of like having a weird phone with a distinctive design

Two phones on my short list are the Essential PH-1 and the Razer. Aside from having great specs at a reasonable price, those two appeal because they’re not common. A departure from Samsung, iPhone, etc. The Essential doesn’t even have any logos or brand identity on it. Not even a part number.

@ruouttaurmind

Fwiw, haven’t checked swappa. (Busy, lazy.)

Curious.
What can you get a pixel or pixel xl for?

@f00l Someone who’s pretty familiar with such things schooled me on the Pixel. Apparently it’s EOL, stalled at Android 6. With Oreo out now and Android 9 (Praline? Payday? Pez? Peeps?) due out in August, I fear it won’t be long before I encounter apps which won’t work. Unless I find a blistering bargain, Pixel isn’t in the running.

@f00l @ruouttaurmind

Whoever told you that the Pixel is EOL and is stuck on Marshmallow is wrong for 2 reasons.

First, the Pixel LAUNCHED with Nougat (the 7.1 version), it NEVER had Marshmallow.

Secondly, the Pixel will be getting 9.0(and who knows, maybe 9.1.), as well as security updates for another year.

The timeline on Google’s page is GUARANTEED dates, they could last longer.

---

In addition, just because you don’t have the latest version of Android, doesn’t mean apps would not work.

Android apps have a minimum API level, and a target API level.

While you could have a device lower than the target API level, you would have almost no issue being higher than the minimum API level.

Thus, apps would STILL work.

@PlacidPenguin Just messin’ with you to see if you’re still keeping an eye on this thread.

@ruouttaurmind

(The extra message is just as relevant.)

@f00l

Fwiw, haven’t checked swappa. (Busy, lazy.)
Curious. What can you get a pixel or pixel xl for?

For 32GB, good condition start at $295, mint condition start at $350 on Swappa.

@ruouttaurmind

Ridiculous, I recently bought a practically mint condition 128GB fully unlocked OG Pixel for less than that.

---

Furthermore, I am finding better deals on eBay right now, though the sellers aren’t saying if they’re the Verizon model, or the fully unlocked one.

@PlacidPenguin Ya, I’ve never found any bargains on Swappa, so I don’t bother anymore.

@ruouttaurmind

Apparently it’s EOL, stalled at Android 6. With Oreo out now and Android 9 (Praline? Payday? Pez? Peeps?) due out in August, I fear it won’t be long before I encounter apps which won’t work.

We were on android 4.3 until a couple months ago. I think animal crossing and pokemon go were the only two apps I ran into that weren’t officially supported.

This is included in android studio- anyone requiring nougat or later knows they are only available to 8.1% of users.

@Seeds I’m surprised at the representation of older OS versions. Nearly 20% still on KitKat. I’m not surprised that fewer than 10% make up JB and older.

I was trapped on ICS with my HTC EVO 3D. Not too long after KitKat was released I lost many of my apps, and secure browser connectivity. Banks killed the apps and wouldn’t permit browser connections as an alternative. I messed with some alternate ROMS, but nothing worked very well. The 3D display and camera seemed to challenge the voldevs at Cyanogen beyond a reasonable effort?

@ruouttaurmind @Seeds

Not the point, but Cyanogen != Cyanogenmod/LineageOS.

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Also, that table is VERY incorrect,

https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html

For those too lazy to look, the representation of devices with API 24+ is significantly higher.

The numbers shown by @Seeds were from the middle of 2017 based on my looking at monthly distribution numbers.

Here is a more recent representation (based on devices accessing Google services).

@PlacidPenguin

Not the point, but Cyanogen != Cyanogenmod/LineageOS.

@PlacidPenguin hmm, surprised the table hasn’t updated since then.

@mike808

https://www.google.com/search?q=\&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=mvin&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiIpf_Fu8XaAhUSHqwKHRrBCw0Q_AUIEigC&biw=414&bih=617&dpr=3

Seeing PassMark has some benchmarks for Android.
https://www.androidbenchmark.net/

Looks like the $65 ($35 on BB sale) Huawei Elate (H1711z) is roughly 40% more performance over my S5 (SM-G900A).

And this site as well for comparing phones.
https://www.pdevice.com/

@mike808 I’ve had a few Xiaomi devices (not phones) and haven’t been thrilled with them. Quality has been fair, not superior, but customer service and support has been atrocious. That’s definitely a company that leaves a poor taste in my mouth.

And now… waiting for OS 8.1 update to download. Just under 1GB. The phone shipped with 7.1.1 and immediately pulled the Oreo upgrade as soon as initial setup was done.

<sigh>

@ruouttaurmind

Yeah, they skipped 8.0.

Oh, and be happy that you’re not receiving update after update of monthly security patches.

@PlacidPenguin Do you have any experience with iOS?

In iOS I can organize my desktop(?) by long-pressing on an app icon, then dragging and dropping on top of another icon. A folder is automagically created with a AI assigned folder name which I can change to whatever I want.

Any idea if I can do something similar in Oreo? I’m not loving 38 app icons all together in a huge icon salad.

EDIT: Nvm, it works the same way as iOS. I was just missing the drop zone.

@ruouttaurmind

Just for the record, it’s been a thing since ICS.

@PlacidPenguin My last full experience with Android was the EVO 3D on ICS about 2 yrs ago. I have the ZTE I picked up last week, but only downloaded 2 or 3 apps so I didn’t need to do much organizing.

And just for the record, when you drink the Apple Kool-Aid it releases nanobots into the brain to seek out and obliterate all references to any other mobile OS.

@ruouttaurmind

I once played with the EVO 3D. Not for a long period of time though.

I’d possibly enjoy playing with it again.

@PlacidPenguin Sadly, it was stolen in the Great Caper in October 2016.

I really liked it and was disappointed when it outlasted it’s usefulness. The 3D camera was slick too. Fuji offers a lenticular printing service and I had several 3D pics printed on deep lenticular film.

@PlacidPenguin I guess the PH-1 doesn’t need to simulate the notch, as it’s got the real thing?

@ruouttaurmind

Yeah.

At least mine is only a simulation.

@PlacidPenguin Eh, ya get used to it. After a couple days you don’t even notice it anymore.

@narfcake I’ve read recently Moto provides a nearly stock Android experience. That’s definitely a plus for me. I hate having to learn how to use tools which over complicate things in an effort to make my life easier (TouchWiz!).

I looked at a G5 a few weeks ago at Adorama for $200 including 6mos of some MVNO service I’ve never heard of. So with some shopping I’ll likely be able to come in at or below $200. Best Buy also had a daily deal for the Sony XA1 Ultra for $200 last week. I probably should have jumped on that one, but was wary of it’s curved display. For no reason I can explain.

@ruouttaurmind

You can get the XA1 Ultra for $195 on Swappa right now.

@narfcake @ruouttaurmind
Costco has the G5 plus 32GB unlocked for $180.

@mike808 I’d prefer to upgrade my display size, or at least maintain compared to the iPhone’s 5.5” display, but the lower price of that Moto is appealing.

@sammydog01

You’d want to buy new from carrier, or would you get a used one?

@PlacidPenguin A used one would be fine but I need to be able to hand it to the Verizon guy and have it work. I’m quite frankly not that interested in how phones work and CDMA and GMS and stuff and don’t want to learn.

@sammydog01

What kind of specs are you looking for?

Because while you could get a used flagship phone for less than it cost while it came out, it might not be necessary in this case.

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If you want the Galaxy J7, I’m assuming you’d get the 2018 version.

Just looked over the specs.

@PlacidPenguin I don’t understand specs. They have an iphone 4 and 5 so it has to be better than those. Woot has a scratch and dent iphone 6s for about two hundred bucks. I’m sooooo confused.

How does the J7 look? That would be a new one- about $250

(Sticking the specs here so that other people could see them.)

@PlacidPenguin I just found a 32g Iphone6S on sale at BestBuy for $300 that might make the kid who doesn’t hate Apple happy.

@sammydog01

I found mint condition 64GB iPhone 6S’s for less than $300.

Though you might prefer to go the Best Buy route simply because of the “kid factor”.

@PlacidPenguin Thanks but I don’t like to spend big bucks at random stores.

@sammydog01

Fair enough.