Senate votes to kill privacy rules guarding your online info; Internet privacy bill vote coming in the House
15http://www.cbsnews.com/news/internet-privacy-bill-vote-coming-in-the-house/
http://thehill.com/policy/technology/325696-week-ahead-fcc-privacy-rules-on-the-ropes
http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/27/15073162/fcc-broadband-internet-privacy-rules-congress-vote
@mikibell, not blaming you for this one.
Blaming some bought and paid for Washington Fuckers.
- 23 comments, 49 replies
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welp, time to install tor again.
@Pantheist That whole project is not doing good these days.
@darkzrobe no? What happened?
@Pantheist It might just be simpler to use Privacy Badger or uBlock Origin + HTTPS Everywhere unless you’re trying to hide.
@dashcloud I don’t think any of those cover ISP tracking, which is the whole problem with this legislation.
@Pantheist Lack of enough end points and the whole fact that the government might have been in it all along lol.
The battle is over already. All of our relevant data is already collected, it’s just waiting to be bought and sold.
You unpatriotic fuckers, think of all the jobs this will create, the small businessman needs this.
I’d actually support what was done here if I had confidence the next step would be taken…
Our govt bureaucracy is clueless about privacy.
We currently have a patchwork of privacy protection/non-protection depending on the privacy issue.
This change undid what one unelected bureaucracy did by pen in one area with the objective of unifying privacy in Federal law rather than relying on the whims of the faceless & unaccountable bureaucracy.
Our privacy should be codified into law… covering all privacy areas in a consistent, transparent and thorough manner. (That most certainly does not mean creating another damned bureaucracy.)
Yeah Europe did that, or tried to.
But the biggest of the Big Data firms don’t have most of their servers or the corp HQ in the EU, so what do they care? They prob just sign the papers saying they’ll be good, and then proceed to do whatever they please.
The EU growls at Google once in a while and some lawyers get busy. I doubt Google forgoes data-gathering to any significant degree tho.
Here, a federal law might have a few teeth, since big data is more of an American dominance area (and Chinese, tho the industry broadens by the day), and many of the corp HQ’s are in Silicon Valley. But who can actually control what they do, control stuff they don’t admit they are doing?
We’d need a Snowden to know for sure. And by then the horse is long gone and out of sight.
We have a corporate culture of “use and abuse and lie”. I don’t expect that will change soon.
Of course, that doesn’t even touch the biggest Big Data of all. But that’s another tale for another rant.
Digital Panopticon
Nothing quite like profitable, weaponized Data is there?
Not to worry tho. I’m sure nothing bad could happen.
/image “I’m lying”
Here is a novel with that title:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01DQSJA94/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1490718481&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=digital+panopticon
@f00l Been awhile, but wasn’t the final goal of the panopoticon that you could have no guard and achieve the same results? Seems like the end game of this is to influence through extremely targeted advertising, unless you want to get into conspiracies.
@Pantheist
You could use an endless information stream for a variety of ends.
Turns out you get better population performance and a better and more stable economy and state if everyone is endlessly “happy” and “free” or at least fascinated and eager for the mind candy we’re fed each day.
“Entertainment” and “shopping” and the like = soma.
And I’ve fallen as hard as anyone.
@f00l fair nuff
Here you all go; the real, unadulterated Panopticon.
https://panopticlick.eff.org/
@Shrdlu
Firefox on IOS thoroughly flunked. No surprise there Mobile browsers don’t give you any real control.
Aside from uninstalling and re-installing firefox and chrome once a day, or jailbreaking the phone, I’m not sure what I could do on IOS.
@f00l It won’t make any difference if you did jailbreak it, or if you sent to android. If you’re concerned about privacy, there is no consumer phone that I know of that will do anything other than expose your tender white underbelly to the knife…so to speak. “It’s not that you’re not paranoid, it’s that you’re not paranoid enough.”
@Shrdlu
I have no clue how to be paranoid enough in the era of smartphones as essentials. (Ok I could break the habit. Not happening this week. I’m self-indulgence personified.)
And if I did know how to be paranoid enough, would I have or be able to develop the time, expertise, self-control, discipline, and monotonous but essential habits required to act on my knowledge?
/8ball ???
Very doubtful
Since I didn’t see anyone actually link to it:
https://act.eff.org/action/don-t-let-congress-undermine-our-online-privacy
Actually go do something about it.
@DrunkCat
Ty
Y’all too late.
http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/28/15080436/us-house-votes-to-let-isps-share-web-browsing-history
@DrunkCat
I saw.
Sucks to be us.
If you want to see if your rep sold you out, here’s the vote info: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2017/roll202.xml
@dashcloud Would be helpful if it had it by state.
@dashcloud
Thx. Around here it’s forgone what they would do.
@f00l This was not a Senate vote. It was a House vote. Doh!
@Barney
And a forgone one. I checked names and votes. They all voted exactly as expected.
@dashcloud what a surprise, “my” Rep., Jim Jordan, one of the founders of the “Freedom Caucus”, voted for this bull.
(that was a typo, but i decided to leave it)
Here’s a nicer visual:
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/115-2017/h200
@DrunkCat Nope, no party line vote there. Not at all. Fuckers
@DrunkCat Wrong vote.
Here’s the right one. Pretty similar anyway.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/115-2017/h202#map
@Pantheist My bad! Thanks for the catch.
When reading about targeted ads, all I can think of is this:
@RiotDemon It won’t stop at advertisers, when looking for a job your history will be purchased. When meeting someone new that person may purchase your history.
@caffeine_dude I tried to find another movie clip. This time from Gattaca where the character purchases her potential partner’s DNA printout from a strand of hair.
@RiotDemon Me, too. Seriously on the nose. I still remember how weird it felt when I realized that the ads I was seeing online were tied to my recent google searches. Or when hulu first recommended some shows for me to watch. Intrusive and insidiously convenient.
@moondrake I’m surprised that it only bothers me when I search for something random, not because I want to buy it, but I’m curious about it. Then all my ads for the next day or two are to purchase the item I’d never want in the first place.
Or when I placed an order online for pet supplies, it kept suggesting the same item I already purchased for a couple of weeks. I don’t need another one, thanks!
@RiotDemon I do search result evaluation for work. The bread and butter of it is looking at results for other people’s searches. I get some seriously strange ads, but on the plus side my own browsing is obfuscated.
Maybe Trump will veto it because of how much he values his privacy.
Or maybe it is a do as I say not as I do thing.
Reddit user started a croudsource to buy some politicians internet history. That should be fun, until they introduce legislation banning this type of behavior on politicians.
How many have actually read ANY app contract;social or otherwise ? Almost every app you download gives permission to access everything on your phone. I was getting ready to download some random something something game last month when I decided to read the ‘privacy policy’ just for the fun of it. They wanted access to my camera & microphone 24/7/365.!!! (Perverts trying to check Mam’maD out when I’m in my flannels!!)I once read 12 pages of headache worthy fine print on a computer but never got any further. St.Looney of the Bin said all I kept repeating was:and furthermore let it be known that in accordance with said agreement idiot agrees that etc etc etc. Big bro got his x-ray vision on anyway that’s why I wear flannels now! Peace out
@mammaD
Dunno which OS you use, but iOS and Android both have granular permission control.
Every so often I check who has access to what.
If I disable a permission, but the app tells me I need to enable the permission for it to run, I consider whether or not the app truly needs the permission.
If yes: I enable it.
If no: I uninstall the app.
(Of course, you could always have a Windows Phone, but you mentioned ‘apps’ - implying that there are a lot of app choices for the OS which you use.)
@someRiverNoise
Yeah but are they transmitting an identifiable device ID? Or do they have ways to track you from app to app? And notice the lack of cookie control and extensions in mobile browsers.
Apple created the iPhone originally because they wanted to sell a cool hi-end device and upend the market again.
Google gave away android because google collects information as an essential part of the biz model - the more android phones in use, the more data they have.
Both of them collect your info. Apple likes to do that too now.
@f00l don’t forget its also about the selling. I do read those tiny little words and rarely acknowledge anything that states they will sell or trade your information. Maybe its implicit but it’s not explicit.
This bill allows them to do that with only implicitly.
@mammaD I ran a scenario for my Monster Hunter rpg team featuring a big rise in demonic possessions primarily among teen boys. Turned out that the latest popular supernaturally themed first person shooter had run a free preview promo, and the user agreement included a clause that started, “I agree to forfeit my eternal soul in exchange for use.” Most signed it without reading it, the tiny percentage that did read it thought it was marketing. It was, just not the kind they thought.
“The Machines” will now take over ! !
@Zebra Welcome to the Machine
So, if you’d like to see how much your Senator and/or Representative received in donations from the telecoms, check this out: http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/29/15100620/congress-fcc-isp-web-browsing-privacy-fire-sale
I think it would go a long way if telecom companies and the elected officials who voted for the bill, offered all their private information for public consumption.
@elimanningface
That’s what the reddit crowdsource “buy your congresscritter’s online profile” thing is about. I don’t have a link to it, but I would love for them to be first.
I am an example of being royally screwed by a deliberate (and illegal, and unfortunately no legal recourse for the victim, rather the offender gets their hand slapped with a fine so low it is likely not even considered rounding error - no incentive here to follow the law) data privacy violation. I was part of a panel at a conference took place at Georgetown University Law School last summer. A different session that summer they talked about how a reporter managed to identify several patients who were part of databases (allegedly anonymous) that were available online. Took him, if I recall correctly, just a couple hours.
This new law is just the icing on the cake (or a license to totally screw people depending on your point of view) of already what is a already very serious problem. While for most people the results won’t be as horrific as what happened to me, the problem is you don’t know if it will happen to you nor if it does what exactly will the the impact of that happening (and I was not the worst example that was talked about there either, so as bad as the impact was on me it could have been worse).
@Kidsandliz
If you’re trying to keep your medical situation private, esp from potential employers, how will you handle this now?
@f00l I was on that panel without using my real name, no identifying information, including on any program and the video has my face fuzzed out.
@Kidsandliz
I was asking something slightly different.
Suppose your personal internet history is for sale to potential employers, and suppose you visit M D Anderson’s website frequently, or are a member of support groups, or visit information sites, or the CDC site, or sites for info on clinical trials. A potential employee might be able to view all that.
I don’t know if even a paid vpn would completely protect you; it would depend on the isp’s spy technology and I know little of sophisticated modern methods.
@f00l We are all screwed in that same way if this happens, not just me. Support groups I am on under a fake name, fake personal information, backed up by a fake facebook page. I make sure the ID assigned my computer by my internet provider changes by unplugging everything periodically so I get an new IP address. Just like defaulted school loans - you can run but you can’t hide. The new law just removed the remote cave and other less remote places someone might try to hide in. Some schools usually use one of the commercial places to hunt you down and
skewer youconfirm your employment and find other information, others just use google (well plus criminal background checks).@Kidsandliz
Our isps can track everything we do on the net, and every site we visit, and put it all together to make a pretty detailed picture of us as individuals. Our cell carriers can track everything we do with our phones that involved data exchange, so they know which apps use use. And then, courtesy of Congress, our isps and cell companies can now sell that.
That’s what the Congressional vote was about. Whether isps could sell the info or not.
Everything
Using a vpn can possibly prevent this. Perhaps.
@f00l I know that. We are fucking screwed. Pre the new law what I was doing would stop casual attempts to connect the dots. With my phone I use it for phone calls and text messages. And to play solitaire. The computer is what would bring me down. What you are saying was one of the points made of the conference I was part of last summer. Some very concrete, and scary, detailed, examples, were given. The marketing data consolidators and credit bureaus has the most information collected and combining us they already have much of what people are afraid will now be divulged and sold/used. On the credit reports though I am please to see they are missing most of my places of employment and addresses LOL. But I am sure that will end shortly.
@Kidsandliz unplugging your router does nothing. Your ISP doesn’t care about that- you’re still the same customer and they can see that. VPN or tor are your options. Either one, you can’t only use it for sensitive information or you can be found out by the times. It’s an all (or at least a lot of the time) or nothing situation.
@Kidsandliz
I suspect this will push the market for vpns.
@Pantheist Yes I know. What it does do is change my IP address for other sites which when, for example, I got banned from the breast cancer board for telling a dumb ass that science works all the time, not just when they wanted it to - just like gravity (fortunately for me the non-hodgkin’s lymphoma board believes in science and they dump the ones advocating for snake oil - we sure as hell don’t teach enough science in K-12)- I can get back on because with a different user name and different IP address because most sites then don’t know I am the same computer/user. As I said in a different post, this works for casual use on some/many sites. For our internet provider selling our souls, we are screwed.
Great. I believe VPNs are going to be a common thing now. Long time coming. Been using ivacy and hss myself. It was all giggles for the silent majority until this bill hit us like crap hits a fan.
Oh, and we already have a crowdsource project aiming to raise one million to buy Ajit Pai and McConnell’s browsing data
I’m pretty sure all of this was happening anyway, they just passed the bill to make it legal now in order to help cover their asses when it comes up in the future.
They could already sell (and probably have already sold) your info. The vote was to repeal a law which hadn’t gone into effect yet.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/29/technology/personaltech/what-the-repeal-of-online-privacy-protections-means-for-you.html
that said, i signed up for and installed PIA’s vpn because the whole ordeal reminded me that i wanted to do that anyway.
now to figure out how to get my router to use the vpn so i’m always protected at home on all devices.
@katylava
I’ve have PIA. It’s been fine so far. I guess I’ll be using it regularly. But I don’t know that even an encrypted vpn will counter all the profiling that isp’s can do.
@katylava If you figure that out and can explain it in cave woman terms, please share. I have PIA as well but haven’t been using it on the android devices.
@katylava They may have invested less in monetizing browsing history if they knew that it was only an option for ~1 year though. Now they have no reason not to spend lots of money on expanding those programs.
@f00l I can’t think how the ISPs would get around it. PIA encrypts the packets before they get to the ISP, both ways. And as far as the ISP knows, all my traffic is going to a PIA server. But, I am far from being a security expert… I’m not even a security hobbyist.
@katylava
I read a blurb somewhere that they could get some info anyway even w a vpn. I didn’t read up on how they do. it tho. There are so many approaches. But maybe I got it wrong.
@moondrake
PIA works on Android. I’ve done it in the past. Guess I need to remember how to do the setup.
@katylava @f00l @moondrake
It might be obvious, but just in case- if you want the full benefit of the VPN, it has to be always on for every device (especially phones/tablets), whether you are on wireless or cellular, otherwise your ISP and/or wireless carrier can see your traffic.
I have some more general thoughts and suggestions that I’ll put below in a new comment.
@dashcloud
Yeah. Guess I’ll go vpn full time on every device but the Netflix device or something. And that device can be just for Netflix.
Perhaps “privacy” will become a “thing” and Netflix and the commercial “no log vpns” and Netflix will start to play nice.
And perhaps the NSA has already hacked the major vpn companies.
Damn PITA but I should have been doing this 15-20 years ago or more anyway.
There’s nothing wrong with VPNs, but make sure you understand their limitations, and possible drawbacks.
Also, by sending your traffic to a VPN provider, you’re trusting that provider to keep your traffic safe and private- they can easily see all of your traffic, and if your VPN provider is super-cheap or free, you may be the product, rather than the service (just like Facebook & Gmail).
You should know that Netflix absolutely despises VPNs, and so you’ll constantly be playing a cat and mouse game or arms race with them (at least if you’re trying to watch US Netflix from a foreign location).
Here’s a great post by Brian Krebs on the topic of VPNs: https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/03/post-fcc-privacy-rules-should-you-vpn/
His post links to this incredibly in-depth (with summaries if you don’t care about all the details) about how to pick the right VPN for you: https://thatoneprivacysite.net/choosing-the-best-vpn-for-you/