It's not too many tools; it's too many platforms.
10So I decided to go through the cordless power tools I have and all the different platforms … and it goes like this:
- Bosch 12v
- Skil 12v
- DeWalt 14.4v
- Porter Cable 18v
- Black and Decker 18v
- Black and Decker 20v
- Skil 20v
My weekend thoughts:
-
I should consider phasing out the Bosch 12v, as all I have is an impact driver. Both the Skil 12v impacts are more powerful, albeit bulkier (regular) or longer (right angle).
-
In terms of battery tech, the DW 14.4v, PC 18v and B&D 18v are NiCad based; the latter two easily adapts to the newer B&D 20v with $10-ish adapters I already have, though.
-
The B&D 20v drill is by far the least capable drill I have. Thus so far, its sole purpose has been powering scouring pads and scrub brushes. It was also included in a kit I bought from Amazon Warehouse because it was cheaper to buy it instead of just an extra battery and charger alone.
-
I have so many “extra” drill/drivers now that I’ll just switch tools instead of switching bits. It’s faster.
-
I might just hack one of the extra DeWalt 14.4 impact wrenches with an adapter to run a different battery (at a higher voltage). It has a brushed motor (so it doesn’t care as much) and as a bare ex-jobsite tool, it isn’t worth much in resale.
-
Over the years, meh hasn’t sold much in cordless power tools.
-
Beyond all the power banks from meh, Skil includes USB charging ports so technically, I have even more now.
-
I dream of the day in which all the brands will cooperate with a universal battery platform. It’ll never happen, though, as there’s too much money involved in keeping folks on a proprietary design.
- 21 comments, 87 replies
- Comment
Looks like you have almost as many power tools as you have cat shirts
@heartny Nah. Definitely more catshirts.
How dare you think there’s something wrong with the free market and capitalism! Ya commie basterd… LOL
Started my cordless tool adventure with Ryobi 14.4V (NiCad), drill & saw kit. When those batteries died (many early chargers were HARD on batteries) and replacement cost seemed outrageous, I switched to Black & Decker 18V (still NiCad). Having a B&D outlet nearby was a significant driver in that decision. Now have a suite of B&D 18V tools: string trimmers, pole saw (mini-chain saw on a stick), coupla leaf blowers, hedge trimmer, hand vac; drill (w/ removable chuck!), circ saw, recip saw, and maybe 1 or 2 others I’m forgetting.
Recently my supply of working 18V batteries began dwindling, so I switched to 20V Li-Ion with the help of cheap adapter as mentioned above; however I also incorporated a small hack: I read online that Porter-Cable and B&D 20V batteries were interchangeable with minor ‘adjustments’ to tool/battery interface, but PC packs were much higher quality. Picked up used PC drill/battery/charger cheap on Craigslist and I’m now running 2 ‘compact’ PC (1.3Ah, I think) and 1 B&D 1.8Ah batteries all working perfectly with PC charger (note that PC batteries have about 25% longer run time, so capacity rating system ???). Also have 4 more compact & 2 giant (4Ah) PC packs in storage when needed.
Since PC is now ‘part of the family’, I picked up their 4 1/2" angle driver open-box (50% off) at Lowes; only missing side handle & wheel wrench.
/image 20v Porter Cable angle grinder
I also have a Skil 18V NiCad 6-tool display kit that Lowes was practically giving away cuz battery/charger were missing; later found batteries & charger that had somehow been orphaned at a garage sale for $2. Have Craftsman 18V NiCad Drill & saw w/ batteries (but no charger ) for much the same reason - they needed a new home.
Finally, have 3 tools (drill, impact driver, oscillating tool) in the Craftsman 12V Li-Ion Nextec line. Very compact & light but somehow still pack decent power. These are very similar to the Milwaukee M12 tools, but they were first available years ago - way ahead of their time. I wish I had thought to buy up this stuff when Sears was dumping it during the Craftsman death throes; the stuff is treated like collectors’ items today.
TLDR; I feel your pain @narfcake
Oops; forgot the mower: Greenworks 20" Twin Force 40V Li-Ion, came with 2 batteries + charger (Craigslist) and I bought 2 more refurb on eBay for $60. I think all 4 are 2Ah (?). Have a small-ish (1/3ac) lot in town; if I want to do both front & back yards on the same day I need all 4 batteries.
The green machine replaced a Black & Decker 20" 24V lead-acid mower that lasted more than 20yrs (incl 1 replacement of battery pair). In the end, just too many mechanical bits & plastic parts were wearing out, plus it weighed 3x what the new one did.
Been using them for over 15 years and have had virtually no problems. Now have an assortment of over a dozen tools that all use the same battery pack. Have only have a couple of tools fail me, but none that did so before what I would consider to be end of life use anyway. For instance, I used a reciprocating saw with 12 inch 8TPI blades to clear bamboo up to 3 inches in diameter at ground level for years but finally burned one up last summer after eating several blades up. It was part of a multipack of tools/batteries that I bought initially over 15 yrs ago that were re-manufactured/re-built. One of my leaf blowers is starting to make noise like a bearing is going out, but it is over 10 years old and gets used a lot. All my drills and such have been thru the gamut of batteries as they progressed from NiCad to LiON. Since the form factor stayed the same it was all good.
I did buy a hedge trimmer from Greenworks once, then a pole-saw (also Greenworks) with what seemed to be the same battery pack, but no… it was slightly different and even after some creative carving on the case, it wouldn’t work in both tools. Totally pissed me off…
Home Depot has 2 packs of 4mAh batteries for $99 at least once a year (normally in the summer months). Combined with the batteries that come with the tools, I have several that are over 5 years old and still kicking after being charged many dozens of times. I used those tools to do a lot of the work on my addition and pool house as well at yard upkeep. I find I don’t start my Stihl chainsaw nearly as often since I bought the cordless, even though it is not nearly as powerful. To trim limbs etc it is way more convenient, starts right up, is less noisy, doesn’t smell, and is way lighter. I am a big fan of the format, capability and durability of those tools. But as always , YMMV.
TL:DR Ryobi One+ FTW
@chienfou Almost all of my cordless are Ryobi 18V+.
I hated buying the NiCAD packs so often, but they have drilled/cut everything that I’ve asked. Rarely, I have to use the drillpress (corded Jet and/or Skil) for wet hardwood, or the corded Dewalt, or the corded Hitachi hammer-drill.
I have repaired a couple of older NiCad packs with new cells.
Li-ion technology is VERY DIFFERENT, so learn your shit before trying to upgrade old packs, interchange brand X into brand Y, etc. Li-ion batteries (or even individual cells) have many safety features to prevent flames. Protected cells can’t be used to make a battery, for an example of bad things to not do.
Question for the team: how do you replace brushes on Ryobi motors? My Google-fu doesn’t help me to find the required part numbers for my drills. One of my well-used Ryobi makes smoke and sparks while doing the twisty stuff. Looks impressive, but not a good long-term plan.
Neighbor once asked my wife if I had a drill they could borrow. She said, “How many?”.
Cordless: 3 Ryo, 1 Ryo driver, 1old Craftsman 14.4 (have to make your own batteries), 2 hand twisty crank drills, maybe 3.
Corded: 2 drill presses, 1 dewalt corded, one giant silver thing (might be a Milwaukee hammer drill, made before WI was a state, I think), Hitachi hammer-drill.
I’m probably forgetting something. Oh yeah, air-tools. 2 drills there.
I have problems, and this is one of them.
Next, saws…
@G1
ISWYDT…
@chienfou @G1 you can’t AND SHOULD NOT try and upgrade old nicad packs to lithium ion. Circuitry is different. If one pack died you could consider replacing all the cells with new of the same type. But I would never do a nicad to lithium swap. but I wouldn’t bother cause ryobi are on sale often. With tools. See slickdeals. And they have not changed their form factor for forever. I would replace cells if it was no longer available maybe. But you can just get cheap ryobi lithium that replace the old nicad. Was an attraction of C3 before sears killed them
@chienfou @G1 Protected cells can be used in battery packs, the IRK Scooter project’s battery back is 40 protected Samsung cells. It depends on the design.
@blaineg @chienfou
“Protected cells can be used in battery packs, the IRK Scooter project’s battery back is 40 protected Samsung cells. It depends on the design.”
Probably, but that’s why I said, "Li-ion technology is VERY DIFFERENT, so learn your shit ".
I didn’t say that I knew shit. I don’t know shit, except that I need to learn more shit.
Long ago, like 2 years ago, I read a story that the 18650 cells (or whichever) are sold as either protected or unprotected. For example, the ones that have a mini-usb port built-in for charging are protected. If you make a battery with protected batteries, then the charger cannot tell which cell is overheating, undercharged, etc.
If you have a flashlight that uses 2 18650 cells, and they are charged in separate slots of a charger, no issues, they are individually protected.
To make a battery, you use unprotected cells, with the protection circuitry on the battery “motherboard”. They are designed for different configs of serial and parallel connections used to build a battery. At least, that’s how it was then. The exploding hoverboards from a few years ago (not sold on meh!) did this shit wrong, I believe.
I researched this when I was trying to fix a battery. The websites selling cells by the seashore had lots of tech papers. Of course they may have been strictly focussed on the types of shit that they sold, and ignored the rest.
Two last things - if you have a Li-ion battery (or cell) start on fire, unplug whatever goes to the mains (charger connected house AC 120V, etc.) And start dumping water. Then add more water. Toss in some water as well. You have to COOL the fuel (Lithium and its ionic friends), not smother the O2 away. I saw some Interesting training vids from airlines, when they started to allow Li-tech back onboard. Interestingly (to me), don’t cover the battery in ice. It will insulate the thermal runaway, and it will re-ignite.
Last - please help. How do I find brushes for Ryobi motors? Drills, specifically. Same with Craftsman. Every exploded diagram I’ve seen shows P/Ns for all the bits-n-pieces, except the motor is listed as an assembly, not as parts.
@G1 That usually suggests that the brushes won’t be available separately. It may be that they’re internal and motor casing is crimped closed; attempts at replacing them means destroying it.
@narfcake I’m willing to risk it.
Looking for volunteers.
Safety is not guaranteed.
Bring your own weapons.
(You’re probably right, of course. Just seeing what others may have found.)
Beside the built-in wear-out parts, what’s the pros and cons of brushes and brushless?
@G1
Brushless: more efficient, runs cooler, more compact for the same power (or more powerful for the same size). There are added costs of the electronics needed to do the driving, however.
Brushed: more cost effective (for the manufacturer). Usually the savings is passed on, but for now, they’re enjoying the premium they can charge for brushless.
https://www.protoolreviews.com/brushed-vs-brushless-motors/
@blaineg @chienfou @G1 you can have cell level protection or pack level protection and obviously you need to know what you’re doing so you don’t burn down the house. That is critical with lithium ion. I thought everyone knew cause the fire stories. Not like nicad or nimh
@blaineg @chienfou @G1 part numbers?
Idk that I trust these guys without more research but someone must make them considering how much ryobi sells
https://carbonbrushes-powertools.com/brand/ryobi
Shoot, they’re all 18650 inside! Well, the Li-Ion anyway. I accidentally bought a flashlight that took a 26650. It’s a tank, but now I have to carry lots of extra spares instead of just AA and an 18650.
I bought into the Milwaukee 18v, even though I have the B&D 20v. I really needed the power for one job, but if you’re going, may as well go all in. And why doesn’t everything from Stanley Black and Decker take the same battery? Why do they have to be fussy between pro and home gamer?
@fuzzmanmatt Some packs use 21700 batteries.
As for why SBD doesn’t make them cross compatible, it’s because of money. B&D and PC 20v uses the same form factor and terminal layout, but the notches in the slide rail are different between the two and PC has a longer base on the tool.
DeWalt tools monitors the battery pack temperature in use, not just in charging. Simply wiring them for just the power is not enough.
@fuzzmanmatt @narfcake I haven’t had the need to hack B&D batteries for my Porter Cable stuff, but I have trimmed a B&D charger so it will take PC batteries.
I gave up on trying multiple brands and settled on Milwaukee a few years ago. Extremely reliable, long battery life, and even the older models are very powerful. I still have a 10+ year old drill and saw set, with the big old clunky batteries, that still gets regular use by our crew. Seems like most people I know with other brands have more issues.
The new DeWalts seem pretty good, but I’m too invested ($$$-wise) in the red stuff.
@stolicat That’s kind of how they keep folks buying more of one brand’s tools. It becomes a comparison of bare tool only versus the competitor’s tool + battery + charger set.
Several years back, that’s how I ended up on Porter Cable instead. $80 for a drill + impact set was cheaper than a bare Bosch drill. It was around the time that Milwaukee had both the V18 and M18 lineups, which were not cross compatible.
That’s kind of how I ended up “invested” on Skil’s 12v too. Woot had a sale and I had a coupon, so it was under $50 for a compact drill + impact set. The positive reviews from Toolguyd and Pro Tool Review were a factor; the drill is stronger than some 18-20v class drills, it has a 1/2" chuck, and 140-ft./lbs. in testing reverse torque on the impact was stronger than what my PC 18v could do. Besides PC was not offering anything anymore on the 18v platform and Stanley Black and Decker basically had no idea what to do with them as they had bought Craftsman and was using that brand to target the prosumer market.
I blame
the goatWarehouse for ending up with Skil 20v tools. My most recent purchase was a bare drill for $10.57. I didn’t need it, but it’s cheaper than a catshirt.@narfcake @stolicat This - and Dremel EOLing the battery for my dremel, making it worthless - is why I gave up and stick to tools with cords. I’ve got newer corded dupes for most of the things I bought with batteries now.
Even the same batteries are different to tie you to a brand. I have a Greenworks 80V blower that was an excellent Amazon lightning deal a few years back. It is identical save for color to the Kobalt model that you can buy at Lowe’s. But the battery packs have a little tab on the otherwise identical case to keep you from using one brand’s battery with the other brand’s charger or tool.
The majority of my tool fleet is Ryobi One+ for this reason. They are not pro grade in most cases and may flag me as a home gamer to the red team or the yellow team, but they’ve proven good enough for my needs. And they have demonstrated a commitment to keeping their 18V platform alive and compatible for the long haul. You can plug an old 18V blue Nicad battery into the newest brushless drill and run it. Or plug a new battery into an old saw. That tells me that my investment is less likely to be wiped out by a marketing team on a whim.
I did just buy myself an M12 Fuel impact drill/driver. It’s a very compact drill compared to what I already had. Both a good friend’s glowing recommendation and a steal on clearance convinced me to add an oddball with a different battery to my collection.
@djslack Ummm, may I suggest removing the offending little tab? The 20v Black & Decker and Porter-Cable batteries share the same chargers but the tools come with interfering plastic intended to keep brands matching. I removed the interference with a utility knife (a Dremel-type tool would have worked as well) and now those systems are happily cross-compatible.
@compunaut I don’t have one, but I will if need be.
A friend got the Kobalt blower and we checked them out, but I’ve not had the need yet.
@djslack I think this is an aspect that some reviewers (influencers?) forget – that not everyone needs the “best”. For folks who are relying on them to make money everyday – yes, the premium is worthwhile. For the occasional DIYer, team red, team yellow, and team blue are often overkill.
(At the other end of the spectrum, caution should still be taken with tools from “no-name” companies and those with only 90 day warranties. I’ve been down those routes before with the auto parts store “specials”.)
@djslack that stuff with the tabs you can usually get an adapter from ebay if it’s popular enough. It’s just plastic and contacts that let them do that shit
@djslack @narfcake I like to buy somewhere in the middle on auto parts. Depends on what it is. Something’s don’t matter. Sometimes. You are ok with generic quality. Sometimes you find MOOG farmed it out and quality is not what you expected.
I’ve never get a car fail cause of a part I put In and I’m cheap.
But some parts you only want to deal with once and done
I’ve tried hard to keep my cordless tools to a single platform. I have Makita Drill and Impact driver. I haven’t yet purchased other cordless tools. For a long time I had Craftsman, but after going Lithium with the Makita I appreciate the slightly higher quality and the speedier charging. My charger failed, I bought a second complete kit not knowing for sure what the issue was but it gave me extra batteries and another drill and driver. I am keeping them as backups for now.
For anyone who drives screws with their drill…PLEASE try the impact driver. I went years having that in my bag and not understanding just how much better it is!
@tightwad yes… Drill with the drill. Drive with the driver. For the everloving of your god do not use philips head. Use square or star head.
@tightwad also philips head are designed to cam out cause early manufacturing. Not an issue with modern power tools used correctly
Surprised it hasn’t been mentioned yet, but how about <gulp>… going corded?
Even the cheapest corded junk from Harbor Freight will outpower, if not at least compete with, the best cordless tools. With no battery they will be lighter to carry. They will obviously outlast them in continuous use. Go a bit better in brand and there’s no comparison. Cherry on top is that corded is also cheaper to buy!
We all have different use cases, but I dabble in just about everything car/home related and seriously can’t remember the last time a cordless was abs-o-lute-ly essential. Just get a nice retractable 12-14 gauge extension cord, hang it in the middle of the garage and there goes 90% of most of usage. Another regular extension cord of similar gauge for inside and around the house. Hey, even if you had to get a small generator for that oddball job in the middle of your 20 acre lot, you’d come out ahead moneywise, and have a backup generator to boot.
Got fed up of cordless tools running out of juice after a few minutes because I hadn’t used that particular one in a few weeks. Or worse, them not taking a full charge at all because I left it dead for too long… needing a new $40 battery after a handful of uses. Keeping all of the batteries healthy soon becomes a part-time job. Anyhow, I know this won’t work for all, but just wanted to throw an alternative out there. At a minimum, get a system where you constantly use the batteries in rotation. I guess that’s the genius behind Ryobi’s approach of having a gazillion niche devices. If the same battery is used in your drill, vacuum, stereo, shiatsu massager and cat’s automatic litterbox, you’re bound to keep them charged.
I don’t trust that new “cord” technology. I’m going to hold off to see if it catches on.
@jester747 I am in the same camp. I was given two cordless drills as wedding presents. I used the infrequently enough that they were never charged when I needed them, so there was always a delay of several hours before I could actually use them.
Later, I was installing a shower and needed to use a hole saw and my batteries were too old to charge enough to complete the job.
I’ve stuck with corded tools ever since. Extension cords are a bit of a hassle, but my tools all work when I need them after months or years of neglect and I don’t have to worry about replacing everything ten years down the road when everyone has moved on to new battery systems.
If I was using power tools every day then I’m sure it would be a different situation.
@jester747 @Limewater
Corded is definitely the way to go for those that use things very infrequently (though I have burned up my share of cheap (i,e. Harbor Freight) corded drills, saws etc.) I am getting too old and cranky to spend a bunch of time yanking a cord trying to fire up a chainsaw that hasn’t been used in a couple of years. Ditto for the push lawnmower I use to trim the parts I can’t use the rider on.
That being said, see notes about Ryobi One+ above…
@chienfou @jester747 @Limewater
Cordless used to suck with nicad. With lithium it’s pretty viable. Obviously if you have corded it still beets it. But sometimes you need to be in places you can’t
Plus we are expanding outside that whole drill/driver where those ancient nicads were used
@jester747 @Limewater for what it’s worth my dad had those early shitty battery tools. And they were worthless. Even when used. They got better. Then way better with lithium.
But there is absolutely no reason to mess with them if you like your current setup
@jester747 When my old corded Makita hammer drill gave up the ghost (abused to death). I deliberately replaced it with a Harbor Freight corded version.
In this case HF is just fine, because I’ll probably need a hammer drill a couple of times in the next 10 years.
@jester747 @Limewater
That’s the signature of Ni-Cad. Li-Ion are in a different world with their low self-discharge rate.
@blaineg @jester747 is that a HF SDS? i don’t do anything to burn one out but …
@blaineg @unksol Hammer drill, so that suggests the regular chuck. Perhaps this one?
https://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/drills-drivers/hammer-drills/12-in-75-amp-variable-speed-reversible-hammer-drill-56404.html
If Amazon doesn’t cancel my order,I’ll have a Skil 20v rotary hammer on the way. Sub-$60 from Warehouse, complete with battery and charger.https://www.skil.com/pwrcore-20v-rotary-hammer-drill-with-battery-charger-rh170202/
https://smile.amazon.com/SDS-Plus-PWRCore-Lithium-Battery-Charger/dp/B07H5RQDNR
(Just got notice it shipped!)
@narfcake @unksol Yep, that’s the one, I got it for $35.
Just today I ordered a Milwaukee M12 brushless kit to replace my old Ryobi NiCad 18v kit. I’ve also got a corded drill for when power is required.
@fibrs86 My corded drills are a 1/4" Dormeyer from the 1950s and a 3/8" Skil from the 1980s.
I did pick up a cheapo 1/2" Stalwart hammer drill recently; it was $10 from Warehouse.
Pix of these in use, pls. Or if end results.
What kinda projects y’all got going on?
@f00l I don’t like to show projects before they’re finished. (They’re never finished.)
@f00l @walarney have more stars
My projects consist of lumber/screws/parts and some headspace and scribbles with measurements from a year+ ago
@unksol @walarney @all
Ok forget the pix.
What are you all working on, or r planning to work on, that might in theory be a finished project someday:
assuming your life lasts at least 10000 years of tolerable health,
and assuming that other tools, other methods, and other projects don’t get in the way of your current collection of intended projects?
@f00l Current primary project is Monster Island. Taking two kitchen islands and combining them into one 36 sq ft beast. Acacia butcher block top finished with Pallmann 2K (experimental). Too cold and damp for painting in unheated shop, so that’s being done piecemeal. Fortunately, the project is it’s own workbench.
@walarney
That sounds really cool.
Will it be too big to bring thru the doorways into the kitchen after it’s finished!
I would love to see the pix of that when it is finished. Or see pix of in-progress., should you want to at some point.
@f00l Short term project is the garage door. The garage foundation seems to have shifted again, so besides some framing work, I may as well replace it with a “new to me” door that’s insulated and has windows.
I almost bought a cordless router last week, but with the battery/brand mess, just decided to make do with what I already have.
@walarney I had a Dewalt 20v router for a minute. It ate batteries like crazy. Depending on what I was cutting, it would dispose of a 5ah battery in about four minutes. I didn’t do any laminate trimming with it, so I suppose it would do much better with thin bits, but for cutting real wood, forget it. Fortunately Dewalt and Home Depot have friendly return policies, so it went back to the store and I continue to use my Hitachi corded router.
I was leaning towards Makita because i have batteries and it’s relatively cheap. But $9 dust collector part is unavailable anywhere. Dewalt has dust collection available, but high price and only have old NiCad batteries in Dewalt flavor. Kobalt looks like a Makita clone, and comes with dust collection. But i only have incompatible 40V charger. (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
@walarney Run the DeWalt on Makita batteries?
/image MT20DL
@walarney idk that a router is really ideal for cordless. Needs more power. I think that’s more a I have the batteries an I could use it here for a quick specific thing
I think your heavy routing should be corded.
as a cheapskate, and a homegamer with no need to step up even to the prosumer grade, I happily stick with big orange, Black and Decker.
in their 20V lithium range, we have
Drill, string trimmer, sawzall, and an under powered blower. makes a great “air broom”, but doesn’t stack up to the gas blower it was intended to replace…(dad has parkinsons, and has lost enough strength that pull starting is an extremely “sometimes” proposition.)
last year the hedge trimmer broke, was looking at the B&D 20v model, but for a 2 bush, 20 min 3x a year job, I couldn’t justify the $80.
next shelf down… they had the corded version, their display model on clearance for $14.
SOLD!
and for that job, Corded is fine, the 2 bushes are maybe 6 ft from the garage.
@earlyre Uh, I just bought one last week.
(Maybe that’s why it was returned to Amazon and resold in Warehouse for $36-ish w/battery.)
I have a B&D corded hedge trimmer from the 90s. It still works.
@earlyre @narfcake Even my Dewalt 20v XR blower is under powered. It performs much better than my mother’s little compact Worx 20v blower, but doesn’t even come close to my corded Toro. Still, it’s suitable for blowing the leaves from the porches and walkways after a windy day. And since it’s cordless I guess I’ll be more inclined to use it more frequently since I don’t have the hassle of dragging out an extension cord.
@earlyre @narfcake @ruouttaurmind My cordless blower is gas powered, is that cheating?
I’ve got the Stihl KombiSystem power head with weed whacker, pole saw, edger, and blower attachments.
@blaineg Nah, it’s not cheating. Still, the existence of 2-stroke and 4-stroke means incompatibility there too.
@earlyre Amazon cancelled my order. Oh well.
@Kyeh
/youtube donald glover home depot
Saw my mechanic this morning. Asked him.
He said he’s tried them all and Snap-On is what works for him. He said he tends to break many of the other ones too quickly.
But, then, he’s a diesel mechanic by day, and at night he works on the cars he buys at auction and then fixes and flips. At any given time he owns 4-8 auction cars.
So I guess he knows his own needs pretty well.
: )
@f00l For folks who rely on their tools to make money, no doubt the premium for the durability and service is justified. The same applies to Hilti tools in the construction industry too.
(I have seen folks counterargue that their premium can be so much greater that it’s cheaper to just have a full second set of tools in the event of a mishap.)
@f00l @narfcake My mechanic brother’s approach was to buy mostly good mid-range tools like Craftsman (before the Sears disaster) and if he broke something he’d take the free replacement, and also buy the Snap-On version.
If he knew a particular tool was going to have a hard life, he’d start with Snap-On. One of his favorites was a Snap-On air impact gun, he said it had far more torque than anything he’d seen in other brands, and it was more compact too.
We have greens and reds… (Riyobi and Milwalkee) of various sizes… gotta say, them mothers are HEAVY! But, they save us on extension cords when my son/I use the yard tools! The Milwalkees are just for heated jacket… Trying to stay with one brand. Everything else is hooked up to the air compressor in the garage…
@narfcake
You may already be aware of this, but…
The Dewalt 14v can be adapted to Dewalt 20v batteries relatively easily by modifying the Dewalt DCA1820 (or Chinasian equivelent) 18v to 20v adapter. A few minutes with a rotary tool and it will fit into the tool. It does not lock into place however. I chose to permanently glue it into my Dewalt 14.4v drill with Gorilla glue since I have no plans to spend $$$ on a new Dewalt nicad battery pack for it. As you mentioned above, this is a brushed drill so I’m not worried about the extra voltage, and the tool performs perfectly.
Something else you are probably also aware of, but I’ll toss this out there just in case…
Cross-brand/platform battery adapters require a bit of due diligence to ensure you don’t kill your battery. Some battery platforms provide power management circuitry integrated into the battery pack. Some platforms integrated them into the tools themselves. Some platforms just ignore the idea of battery power management altogether. No power management = reduced battery life. Running a non-managed battery in a non-managed tool means you’ll have to stay aware of your battery level, switching batteries before it’s fully depleated.
If I were buying now for home owner tools I’d probably lean toward ryobi. I have a number of c3 craftsman from the slickdeals/sears points deep rolling discount days and I know I can open the packs and replace the cells so. Eh. I’m good for now.
I will need to pick a line eventually if there is a new tool I need. Although it is worth noting you can buy “adapters” between many. they all run on the same range of voltage it’s just plastic and wires to get the tool/battery to mate up
@unksol
I have a handful of battery packs that won’t charge any more. I REALLY need to open them up and see if I can cobble them into a few complete packs that work. Guess I’ll put that on my ‘to-do’ list…
@chienfou @unksol @narfcake
Do you guys know of any good lightweight reciprocating saws? I got a Cobalt but it was kind of heavy, as most of them seem to be.
A friend of mine broke it and I’d like to get one that’s easier for me to handle this time.
@Kyeh @narfcake @unksol
most of the cordless ones will be about the same weight. That being said, half (or more) of the weight will be battery pack. If you can get by with corded, it will be lighter overall.
@chienfou @narfcake @unksol I’d actually prefer corded - but are they all the same too?
@Kyeh One of my more recent tool additions from Amazon Warehouse is the 20v Skil compact reciprocating saw. It’s not as fast as the old Milwaukee corded, but it’s lighter and a lot more convenient.
https://www.protoolreviews.com/tools/power/cordless/saws-cordless/skil-20v-compact-reciprocating-saw-rs582901/51391/
I also have their 12v brushless one-handed version.
https://www.protoolreviews.com/tools/power/cordless/saws-cordless/skil-12v-brushless-reciprocating-saw-review-rs582802/51925/
@unksol Third-party C3 batteries can be had for reasonable prices – much more reasonable than the resale value of the tools. For some reason, folks are willing to pay some serious amounts for used C3 tools; much more than what I think they’re worth.
The reason why I say that is my 12v Skil impact was able to break loose bolts that my dad’s C3 impact (19.2v) could not.
@chienfou Depending on what platform, battery adapters may be worthwhile. Also weigh the cost of third-party batteries; they may be cheaper than just buying some bare replacement cells.
@Kyeh @narfcake @unksol
Again, application is the key. How much will you use it, what will you be cutting, etc. ?
I would suggest a trip to Lowe’s or Home Depot where you can put your hands on the actual tools, see how they feel in your hands, balance, weight etc. All things being equal go for the highest amp rating you can afford/feel comfortable holding.
@narfcake Thank you! That website looks like something I should bookmark.
@chienfou Thank you! Yes, I’ll definitely check things in person before buying one, but it’s nice to have some suggestions before heading in and being confronted by a vast array of makes and models. At least we have a privately owned hardware store that prides itself on customer service. It’s so hard to get help in the big box stores.
I actually want it mostly for cutting branches in my yard.
@narfcake
I actually have an assortment of OEM Ryobi batteries, in the 2.5 to 4 mAh sizes, as well as a few knockoff 5mAh batteries. I have used/abused them a lot over the years and find that when they sell the 2 pack of 4 mAh for $99 (sometimes with a free bare tool as well) at HD It’s worth jumping on a set every few years. I have 2 drills, an impact driver, reciprocating saw (had 2 but burned up the refurb), a circular saw, flashlight, fan, string trimmer, leaf blower, tire inflater, chainsaw and probably something else I have forgotten, but keep about 4 battery packs up and running at a time so I always have spares charged and ready.
@chienfou you can buy 18650 cells and wire them in. Lots of replacement packs on ebay too that seem reputable. It’s just a plastic wrapper. And some basic circuitry. I might use a little more caution on picking them though.
@narfcake I’m aware of the third party c3 batteries and have no issue with mine. Nevermind I can replace the cells and I just have a few tools I rarely use.
Point was more they might want to consider the future of the line. I was fine with it at the time. There are also reasons to go dewalt or makita. How you use it. What brushless options are there. Sales. Etc. I just generally wouldn’t split lines cause the batteries. And the companies know that.
There are points to be made for Rigid. Battery warranty wise and quality. I would just not get into a mix of random stuff.
As far as the impact. Was it an 3/8 impact wrench? The 1/4 driver is not that the 3/8 early wrench does fine on lugs. They came out with a better model after mine before they cancelled them. but it has helped on some extremely rusted bolts too. You know those soak. Hammer. Shock. Heat.repeat ones. That sometimes involve 4 feet of pipe. Lol
@chienfou @Kyeh @narfcake
Kyeh this might have gotten glossed over but what are you actually trying to do and why do you need a reciprocating saw? Blades may also matter. Might be a better option if it’s something you don’t have. Etc.
@chienfou @Kyeh totally missed the cutting branches thing. Im still in the buy the battery camp. Cause I’m out in the yard.
If it’s green wood a basic pruning blade will rip through in seconds
As
@unksol Impact driver vs. impact driver with 1/4" hex to 1/2" socket adapter. These were some 3/8" nuts and bolts holding some brackets together.
When PTR did their shootout, it tested out to 1680 in./lbs. (140 ft./lbs.) in reverse, which is tied with a M12 Fuel.
https://www.protoolreviews.com/best-12v-cordless-impact-driver-reviews/
(I’m keeping an eye out for a bargain brushless 20v. PTR measured it to 4200 in./lbs. (350 ft./lbs.) in reverse!)
@narfcake well. C3 didn’t have a horse in that race and they are all drivers not impact wrenches.
As far as stupid markup… They are dead and supply vs demand etc etc.
When I bought my stuff years ago there were steep discounts and I had a tiny hope the line might continue. I still like the design of my recip saw for the way I use it.
Then they trashed it and did v20 and 20v. noncompatible from lowes and sears. With C3 and each other. What a cluster.
That’s why I’d pick a line you don’t think it’s going anywhere and won’t mess with the battery interface. And has new “tools” you might want. Regardless of what they call them they are all running the same amount of cells per voltage. Then 40/60 just series vs parallel with more.
I wonder if anyone has checked what cells they are using. You would think some youtuber would be
@narfcake I’ve seen awesome stuff about FUEL for years but it’s just too expensive for how I’d use it
POPSOCKETS! SPROCKETS! DAVY CROCKETT! AWESOME!
@narfcake the c3 impact wrench at 300 ft/lbs does the car work. Honestly I only look at that measure on a 1/2 impact wrench
@unksol The C3 was OEM by TTI (Ryobi/Ridgid/Milwaukee). After being bought by SBD in 2017, they ceased the C3 line; they didn’t spend $900 million just to send more $ to their competition, y’know. Some of the newer V20 lineup is basically Porter Cable tools in red instead of gray/black.
The older Craftsman was just a clusterfuck when it came to compatability anyways. For a while, they had offerings from TTI (black Craftsman), SBD (Bolt-on), and Chervon (Nextec) – and all used different batteries.
@narfcake there was a period when c3. And nextec were valid. You had a heavy duty and light duty line. Milwaukee and others still have 12v/20V.
Sears dying had a lot of a mess but back in 2013 you could get some cheap decent stuff still. Plus points if you could work em. Ffs this makes me feel old
Their man issue is sears and lowe’s are both selling similarly named crastman non compatible tools. That’s the big stay away. I think ryobi/home depot is pretty locked in
@unksol Home Depot is absolutely locked in with TTI. Ryobi and Ridgid power tools are exclusive to them, and they’re a major seller of Milwaukee.
With the most recent introduction of Flex, which exists in Europe already, Lowes is going to be distributing more of Chervon brands. Skil and Kobalt 24v (which are OEM by Chervon) covers up to the mid-market, with Flex covering the high-end professional contractors.
SBD can’t dictate the tool market this way. Lowes is carrying so much of the Craftsman tools because otherwise they wouldn’t get their share of DeWalt.
@narfcake interesting. We are basically at which store do you like more for the average person. Any idea who makes menards master force? I only get them for harbor freight level corded stuff usually.
@unksol Yep. Orange store for green, orange, or red; blue store for red/white, blue, and soon to be black.
As for Master force, their cordless are OEM by Chervon; their corded, I do not know.
https://www.protoolreviews.com/tools/power/cordless/drills-drivers-cordless/masterforce-20v-brushless-drill-review/47105/
SBD stands to have the more limited shelf space in the future. Even Walmart isn’t letting Black and Decker command their tool aisle; Hart is a TTI brand.
@narfcake I mean I have never bought a tool from walmart that just feels wrong. Lol
Never had to do a warranty on one either. My only big outlay was craftsman V60 when lowes/menards had them on clearance. and the 4 year warranty. will
there honor it? idk but They are great. Batteries got expensive but I can replace cells. So. Meh
@narfcake Flex sounds interesting. But also like they might sell it at a permium. And upped the voltage for marketing. Lowes generally seems to price higher anyway. A key thing would be keeping the same battery design like ryobi. Which lowes would have to commit to hard. To get people on board. It’s that or acknowledging they expect you to wear them out fast enough to get the next version… Which may be fine but not for a homeowner tool
@unksol Not just might, but will. Flex is a renown brand in Europe and targets the professionals.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flex-Elektrowerkzeuge
This is in contrast to Einhell, which I’ve seen a lot on Amazon. That brand and quality is more along the likes of Black and Decker.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einhell
@narfcake Im too cheap to be looking at anything with the word legitimately professional. But who knows
@chienfou @Kyeh I bought these years ago and they rip through standing trees up to a few inches. Still have new blades
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-12-in-5-TPI-Pruning-SAWZALL-Reciprocating-Saw-Blades-5-Pack-48-00-1303/100011034
Was looking for other stuff and saw (he he)
https://www.homedepot.com/p/DIABLO-12-in-Carbide-Pruning-and-Clean-Wood-Cutting-Reciprocating-Saw-Blade-DS1203CP/301697673
I’d probably go with the 5 pack but diablo carbide is very good and you it you want fast so you don’t have to hold it up long. Maybe. You definitely want the right blade
@chienfou @unksol Thanks! I have a pack of pruning blades but I’ll keep these in mind for when I need more.
@narfcake @unksol Lowes, when I’ve compared prices on a list of items for a project, seems to run about 5% higher overall compared to Home Depot. Maybe it’s because they have an ongoing 5% discount when you use their credit card.
@kevinrs I guess it varies by the items. My most recent purchases of electrical junction boxes, ceiling grids, and some hardware was cheaper at Lowes than Home Depot – and I didn’t have to buy by the box.
@kevinrs @narfcake I’m sure it does. I was thinking lumber. But I’d probably go menards.
Home depot carries the old work electric boxes I like but I’d try and buy the from the manufacturer anyway since they are special order. Supposedly you can get 40% off leviton ordering at the home depot pro desk and I want to replace all the outlets/switches but I’ve never tried this. Post 11
https://slickdeals.net/f/14262188-leviton-t5325-wmp-15-amp-125-volt-decora-tamper-resistant-duplex-outlet-white-10-pack-18-6
After suffering through years of NiCad garbage that was always discharged when I needed it, I grabbed a big Porter Cable Li-Ion set off of Woot several years ago.
Absolutely worth it just for the very low self-discharge rate of the lithium batteries! I’ve never been caught out by a dead battery since.
Since I had a good start on Porter Cable, I tried to standardize on that, and have added a few more tools, and a couple of battery packs (Lowes is a good source).
But as I look at the wall behind me, I have the following chargers hanging there:
Porter Cable 20V Li-Ion: Most stuff.
Dewalt 20V Li-Ion: a lone (recently purchased on a deal tip from ToolGuyD) 1/2" drive impact gun with much more torque than anything from PC.
Dewalt 8V Li-Ion: A really cool twist-controlled power screwdriver. How fast it drives is controlled by how far you turn your wrist.
Hitachi 3.6V Li-Ion: My older power screwdriver. Still chugging along after 11 years.
Bosch/Dremel 12V Li-Ion: More by dumb luck than design, both my Dremel tool and my Bosch micro-chainsaw use the same battery pack.
Milwaukee 12V Li-Ion (M12): Again, a one-off. The Milwaukee power ratchet seemed best suited to my needs, and a smaller battery pack is better suited to the tool type.
@blaineg PC offered one several years ago … then proceeded to barely distribute it.
https://www.protoolreviews.com/tools/power/cordless/drills-drivers-cordless/porter-cable-20v-max-impact-wrench/27109/
So yeah, the DeWalt is a great choice.
In PTR’s brand summary:
Toolguyd’s take last year:
https://toolguyd.com/porter-cable-cordless-power-tool-brand-032020/
@narfcake I did look at the Porter Cable impact wrench, but the DeWalt has more than double the torque, and is more compact. And it was about 1/3 off on the deal, so I deliberately decided to complicate my battery & charger life.
I think it’s unfortunate if B&D decides to let PC wither & die, but that doesn’t make the tools I’ve got work any worse.
I don’t remember where I stole this idea from, but if you’ve got a charger that doesn’t have holes for wall mounting, add a couple of picture hangers to the case screws. Depending on your charger, you might need longer screws. Then the loops on the picture hangers can be used to hang the charger.
@blaineg Smart. The only issue I can foresee is if these are plug-in battery packs versus slide-mount battery packs. Gravity will help keep a slide-mount pack in place; gravity may help a plug-in pack fall out.
In different news, Porter Cable actually came out with a new product!
https://toolguyd.com/porter-cable-activity-2021/
@narfcake No problem, the plug-ins are so snug you could hang the chargers on the ceiling.
I have added my own mounting keyholes to some chargers, if there’s safe space to do it, but sometimes there isn’t.