C.A.Ts and H.O.As
7We’re currently HOA free, but our last house was in a neighbourhood with a real whacko HOA (the kind that drives around 8am the morning after the night of a tropical storm to take photos of shutters that fell off in the storm and send a nastygram threatening legal action against you for having damaged shutters).
One of the crazy policies was that cats had to be on a leash. It didn’t actually say that, but HOA allowed two pets per house that could be a cat or a dog. They also specified “pets must be on a leash at all times outside”. Common sense would probably dictate that meant dogs, but no, we got written up for having a cat outside that wasn’t on a leash… it actually wasn’t even our cat, it was a stray.
My parents are in process of buying a house, the house belongs to an HOA that has similar wording to the one we escaped. This one says if pets leave your property they should be leashed. Is it reasonable to assume that they don’t expect cats to be leashed and that our last HOA was just bat-crazy? Or is this a common thing that I’ve somehow not been aware of until now, that HOAs expect you to have your cats on leashes if they go outside? How likely is it this HOA will go after my parents for having cats outside?
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If you really want a reality-based answer specific to this HOA, find an attorney in the area who is familiar with the local case law and that HOA’s proclivities. Nothing else will be as relevant. From experience, much may depend upon whether the HOA self-enforces, or uses a management company, and whether that management company bills the HOA a flat fee for its services, or bills on a per-offense-cited basis.
@werehatrack HOA is run by an HOA company, like many are rather than self managed. Would a lawyer know if no actual legal suits pressed? I imagine most HOA issues get settled without lawyers.
While HOAs can be a serious pain, I’ve always figured they protect me from idiots and inconsiderate people.
However, I was in one that had some nut cases. So definitely recommend research - both the actual rules and then any informal info you can fine (neighborhood apps and other have been mentioned).
I’m currently in one that is working very well for me. Just there in the background dealing with lawn care, snow removal, exterior maintenance. Not picky about little things, and the people living here are the same. It is a joy.
I also was in another for several years that just concerned itself with bigger things that kept the neighborhood looking good and working smoothly. A few make-sense rules that were enforced sensibly and honestly. I hardly noticed I was in one. But my house value stayed up and neighbors were considerate.
Yup - research, research, research!
I would 100% expect an HOA to have that policy, or at least the property one. They aren’t going to want an outdoor cat colony or someone feeding stray animals and bringing them in than claiming they are just feeding the strays either.
If it was a TNR stray with a tipped ear it would be kinda obvious if was just a stray/fixed. But you can’t control a cat outside and they can quickly multiply if people don’t have them fixed. Which I’m sure you do, but you can’t trust other people. Like me. And some other people just won’t want your pets on their private property. Which is 100% fair if everyone signed the same contract.
I think on your property and fixed is more reasonable than the whole leash thing but it’s not like you can stop a cat once it’s outside if it wants to go run around and then come home.
That being said. I don’t like HOAs, but it is something I would expect them to do. And their expectation is not for you to walk your cat. It’s for it to be an indoor cat or go out in the yard with you.
I’m out in the country. I don’t particularly like my neighbors dog going in my yard but I don’t make a deal of it. I do dislike him barking/charging when I go to get my mail but hes small and I could kick him if he kept coming… I really disliked my other neighbors dog that would charge down the road at me full tilt. Along my property. And stop at the last second. I about shot him once because it really did look like he was not going to stop.
On the other hand you have
/youtube cat saves kid.
Which looks HOA ish to me. granted very good cat off a leash. Very bad dog off one. What if cat is lounging on someone porch, kid wants to grab it and… a cat who does not want grabbed/is surprised will mess you up.
What if people just kept their pets on their property or on a leash
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And just to be clear I have no problem with a well behaved farm dog. Personally I have no problem with the stray cats. I’ve fed a few and technically all the ones inside were strays… or accidents from the strays. I captured some hence the current herd.
My point being if you bought into an HOA… keep your stuff on your property and off mine is really basic/not surprising.
Other dumb rules. Well. You still kinda bought in but yes HOAs can be awful.
On the other hand my mom just paid probably a little more than she should to get a nice place the sisters/brothers kids could come visit, she stayed close to where she wanted, and doesn’t have to do any maintenance.
I might have some thoughts about that. But at the same time Dad ran himself ragged before he passed keeping up her mom’s and his moms place. I’m too far away. I’m sure she didn’t want to burden people. Not all HOAs are bad but I definitely would have liked more info.
@unksol I’ve got two dogs too… I don’t let them leave my property. I’m on 14+ acres and I still don’t let them roam wherever, if they’re outside, I’m making sure I know exactly where.
We have neighbour dogs come visit us all the time though. Seems to be the thing in the country, everyone just throws their dogs outside and lets them roam wherever. I don’t mind dogs, I don’t mind other dogs coming to see me either; I would never let mine go wherever though primarily for their own safety, but secondary, I know some people are scared of dogs so wouldn’t want mine scaring anyone.
We’ve just got the one outdoor cat (the one we got written up for at our old HOA). She just randomly showed up on our doorstep heavily pregnant in 100F+ weather one day. We took her in to have the kittens then got her spayed and had the kittens adopted out. We tried to return her to the outdoors afterwards (she didn’t want to be an indoor cat after living outside her entire life). Despite thinking its ridiculous for an HOA to have rules against cats being outside without a leash, I actually do otherwise keep all my cats indoors (again for their protection, and the protection of wildlife). We moved stray mama to our new house with us and the only dogs I chase off my land are the ones that show aggression to her. All other doggo visitors I greet happily.
@OnionSoup I don’t have a problem with nice dogs. If the neighbors dog came running up to say hi. Sure. I’m down for some stritches. It’s the whole charging/defending territory that’s a problem. Especially when it’s actually my property/public property.
Not really a dog problem more an owner problem.
Cat wise people out here have barn cats. I feed some possible strays if I see them in the winter. Last few months some cat just showed up in my mom’s yard wanting pets then just disappears. Reappears a few days later. She doesn’t feed it. First time that’s happened in 40 years and I think it’s nice. She hadn’t been able to have cats. Was right after Dad died. Outside cats can be fine.
But I’m just not remotely surprised an HOA would have a rule like that.
@OnionSoup also if you want to read some good pet stories. James Herriot. Granted I only have the one “Cat Stories” my grandma gave me for a birthday over a decade ago. But there some impressive outdoor cats.
He has a “dog stories” and a number of others. I enjoyed them/his writing style . Think I’m going to reread it it’s been a while
@OnionSoup I guess they are technically anthologies of his other books. Still.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/specialfeatures/the-books-of-james-herriot/
I’ve always avoided HOAs in general and have gotten by with being in places where I have at least reasonable communication with neighbors though we’re not all best-buds. (and always read the fine print before buying a property…)
But sounds like that place is run by dog people and for me that’s a no-go right away. But yes, I’m biased in favor of cats. And not de-clawed.
Unfortunately I associate lawyers with dogs, or dogs with lawyers, so if the HOA has good dogs, um, lawyers, then it’s bad news for your parents and the cats.
@pmarin I associate lawyers with weasels.
@phendrick @pmarin Don’t be so hard on weasels!
@macromeh @phendrick @pmarin
Q: What’s the difference between a lawyer and a catfish?
A: One is a slimy scum-sucking bottom-feeder, and the other is a fish.
[A tasty tasty fish when breaded, seasoned, and fried properly.]
@phendrick @pmarin Weasel would like to discuss this with you.
@phendrick @pmarin @werehatrack
One of my favorites:
This strip led me to (affectionately) refer to my young children and even my dog as “tiny weasels”.
You might be able to find something out by asking on the nextdoor app, which is neighborhood-specific, supposedly.
Since this gets into legal aspects, maybe see if this has been discussed before on r/fuckHOA/?
@narfcake I’ll take a look.
As far as “legal” goes, I’m sure based on how the HOA is written it absolutely would mean by the book cats are supposed to be on leashes and they COULD enforce it… in reality though, I would be astounded if most HOAs actually enforce leash laws on cats on the basis of common sense. I mean, is leash laws on cats “normal”? I suspect (or maybe I’m just hoping) that lots of HOAs have similar writing but don’t actually enforce it.
Thankfully in my parent’s case:
@narfcake @OnionSoup Simple solution: Put a 6-inch “leash” on every cat’s collar! A ribbon might do. In your discussion you said nothing about there being any particular description of the leash “certification”. And no mention made of whether the other end of the leash had to be attached to a human or anything else. Is there a legal distinction between their being on a leash and a leash being on them?
For fun, write them and ask for a written opinion from them on whether pet crows you’ve been feeding have to also be on leashes. Either way they answer puts them in a legal bind. Either they contradict their bylaws or they flaunt the conservation laws in most states.
And yes, IMO they do tend to be a mix of bat-shit crazy and a parasitic drain on assets. My local one collects yearly dues (admittedly, not much compared to others I’ve heard of) and what they don’t use on office supplies and postage they tend to donate to some board members’ pet projects, such as flowers (that don’t get watered in this drought) at a small neighborhood “park” that doesn’t even have benches and belongs to the City, anyway.
Most of the residences in my neighborhood are rentals to college students, and the out-of-town owners just consider the HOA fee a nuisance to pass on to the renters, so too much inertia to change anything.
@narfcake @OnionSoup @phendrick
nice idea, but technically that is illegal. In the US it is illegal to own a crow as a pet. Crows are covered under the federal Migratory Bird Act of 1918,
Typical experience of a cat on a leash:
About outdoor cats:
https://pethelpful.com/cats/10-reasons-why-you-should-not-let-your-cat-outside
https://petcreeks.com/why-you-shouldnt-let-your-cat-outsides/
https://www.sheknows.com/living/articles/1133517/should-cats-be-allowed-outside/
https://www.felineresearch.org/post/issue-brief-wildlife-impacts-of-outdoor-cats
All of the above having been quoted, a pregnant cat showed up on our front porch and because she looked and acted needy, SWMBO fed her and thus created a feral cat that was attached to our property.
In our 30+ years together, we have only had 2 cat-hating canines, one of them was with us when Mom-cat showed up, and that’s why she and the kittens stayed outside.
Once they were old enough, we took them to the local feral cat society to get them neutered and so her left ear could be notched. [A notched left ear demonstrates that although a cat is feral, they have been neutered and in someone’s care.]
We adopted out all the kittens, and Mom-cat [re-named Thumbs because of her extra toes] stayed with us, living on our porch in a variety of open [in summer], and closed and heated [in winter] cat houses and beds for the next 13 years.
Despite having visits from possums and raccoons, and once a bloody fight with something that left her bed looking like a murder scene, she was never ill, and never had any injuries we could find.
Initially, she was slightly shy especially with me, but SWMBO had shoulder surgery, meaning that I became the one feeding and watering her, and during that period, we became a lot closer.
Her health was always excellent, and she apparently came to trust us so we were able to take her to the vet for her shots and check-ups. She also interacted well with all of our dogs, playing together in a safe and friendly manner [including 2 Newfies, a boxer, an Irish Wolfhound, and an English Mastiff]- except for 2, the first of which was a rescued St. Bernard.
Unfortunately, one of 2 our current dogs is the other cat-hater- a rescue mix of some hunting breed, who looks kinda lab-ish, and is apparently never going to stop hunting for another smaller animal to kill.
About a year ago, he dashed out a door that had been open for a moment too long, and although on previous occasions, she had managed to escape and evade him, either she had slowed down in her old age or he had learned some new trick, because after we had cajoled him into the house, I found her still warm and slightly bloody body in the long grass at the edge of our lawn proper.
Thus even though she did live a long and full life solely because she was an outdoor cat [and because he’s an asshole of a dog where other animals are concerned], she died before she needed to.
We still miss her every day…
/giphy sad kitty
Doing researxch… My wife has sent out feelers to Facebook on the HOA. I’m going to drive around the neighbourhood this weekend looking to see if I see any cats outside- trolling the neighbourhood for pussy so to speak.
My parents live a few hours away currently, they’re moving into town to be nearer to us, so feel a little responsible to make sure they don’t get lumped here.
@OnionSoup Maybe even knock on a couple doors and ask, or talk to a few folks just taking a walk. If you can find out when a monthly owners meeting is happening, that would be pure gold for taking the temperature. Talk to realtors selling property from other HOAs in the area. Or maybe you can find someone who sold property in the target area … real estate listings from last month or similar.
I would bet someone involved with the rules had a neighbor cat peeing in the garden and stinking it up at some point. Cats can be furry little bastards and laws don’t usually cover them.
I had an HOA that didn’t allow farm animals with the exception of pet turkeys. I thought about getting one. Didn’t.