I was getting migraines that affected my vision. No pain, but disruption of the center of my visual field in an arc and sweeping outward off the edges.
Not painful, just disruptive.
Then, I stopped artificial sweeteners. I didn’t do science to it, I don’t know WHICH sweetener did it, I just use sugar/honey/maple syrup now instead of anything “diet” or zero calories.
Haven’t had a single migraine for a long while now.
Threw all my water flavorings in the trash. No regretti.
@EvilSmoo
Aspartame reliably does this to people who are phenylketonuric. There is a smaller group for whom multiple culprits can do it, but the mechanism had not been verified when I last checked.
@EvilSmoo@werehatrack I happen to fall in a weird category where aspartame won’t bother me. However, stevia damn near every time will trigger a migraine within 24-48 hours. It’s awful since it’s begun to creep into more and more food products. I hope some day the mystery for non sugar sweeteners in general gets solved.
@katsuronishi I believe that’s been a selling point of Crystal Light ever since it was invented, hasn’t it? Man-made chemical alternatives to sugar in order to keep it light?
@djslack@katsuronishi
Powdered CL formulas have aspartame, which is worse for a lot of people. So do some of their squeeze bottles. My principal objection to this particular flavor is that acai is vile. Nasty, awful, ick, yuk, no good very bad throw far away Do Not Want!
@katsuronishi Actually, sucralose is sucrose (table sugar) that has had one hydroxyl group replaced with a chlorine. It won’t rot your teeth or affect your insulin levels.
It is about as “man-made” as 10,000 things you eat or use every day without a whimper.
Virtually every commercial baked good for example has “additives” to stabilize, discourage mold and decay, improve appearance, mouth feel, and on and on and on. Read the label on the side of a loaf of bread, or the side of a box of cake mix, sometime.
For that matter read the label on most any purchased foodstuff, which except for fruits and some vegetables isn’t treated with some man-made item.
Even most meat is injected with water containing flavoring agents, salts, and other materials to improve handling, cooking and taste.
In my view, this is all much ado about nothing. YMMV.
@Jackinga@katsuronishi
Even fruits and vegetables are coated with waxes, irradiated, and before harvesting were likely sprayed with man-made fertilizers, pesticides, and animal feces.
Imagine how things are in places that don’t have an FDA at least trying to keep things that kill us from being sold as food or supplements to eat. Oh, wait, that’s every place except 'Murica.
@djslack@katsuronishi@werehatrack But what if you lost your sense of taste from covid and want a cheap pick me up that won’t kill off your intestinal parasites?
Asking for a friend.
@katsuronishi@mike808 This reply has nothing to do with the product being offered as such. I am still reacting to the implied horror of “man-made chemical.”
This phrase and others like it are causally thrown out by folks who don’t really understand commercial foodstuffs made in factories. Yet, those same folks imbibe “man-made” ingredients virtually everyday without complaint.
One of the more fascinating aspects of this man-made issue is just how many products and/or ingredients are man-made starting from corn. Here is a partial list:
In America, at any rate, it is almost impossible to go through a normal day and not imbibe many, many somethings made from or with “chemicals” made from corn, by “man-made” techniques and processes. From the saccharin in your morning toothpaste to the ethanol in that final night cap, you are awash in man-made chemicals which come from corn.
@Jackinga@katsuronishi@mike808 Mmm, treacle, my favorite! Closely followed by citrus cloud emulsion. Wait, aren’t those prog rock bands from the 70s? I might be confused… oops, never mind!
@Jackinga@katsuronishi@mike808 Of all those things, sucralose is the only one I’m aware of that caused respiratory issues for me. It’s a not all that uncommon side effect. I stay far away from it.
@Jackinga A quick glance at your list reveals that you included gluten. Being a celiac, I know a lot about gluten and it is not man made. It’s a natural plant protein found in wheat, barley, and rye.
@cengland0 You are correct, sir! But there is gluten, the product of the reaction of the two proteins, gliadin and glutenin, and there is “corn gluten”, which is not the same thing. As a celiac, you may be sensitive to certain forms of gliadin/glutenin glutens, but probably not corn gluten.
So-called corn gluten is a by-product of corn processing (wet milling) and treatment with sulfur dioxide, from some post treatments of corn mash used in the production of ethanol, or is a fraction isolated from the leftovers in the production of high fructose corn syrups.
Commercially there is somewhere North of 3.5 million tons of “corn gluten” or in the parlance of the trade, just “gluten” produced in the U.S. annually. It used for mostly for animal feed with a minor use as a herbicide. For animal feeds, it is usually pelletized to increase its bulk density and to lower shipping costs.
Corn gluten can be further processed into zein and glutelin.
Zein is a protein with large amounts of proline, an amino acid, and is/was used for everything from paper coatings (paper coffee cups) to manufacture of buttons, to food shellacs (confectioner’s glazes).
There is a huge, mostly hidden, chemical process industry based on corn. The corn processing industry generates an incredible number of products and chemicals. Many of these corn derived products find their way into the manufacture of foods as additives and <gasp> man-made chemicals.
My point in including that list was to illustrate just how many different things are “man-made” from something as simple and innocuous looking as corn kernels. And by way of that example to contrast and compare the relationship between sucrose and sucralose to those myriad products produced from corn (aka maize).
@Jackinga I don’t believe either aspartame or sucralose have much in the way of health risks, outside of some very specific, well-understood reactions. And sugar is almost certainly worse for you.
They both just taste awful to me, at the concentrations used by most food producers. Stevia, too, and that one’s “natural”.
@gdorn@Jackinga This is my reason too - it’s not the “man-made chemical” aspect that bothers me, I just don’t like the taste of the artificial sweeteners.
@Jackinga Hey you seem knowledgeable about this stuff. Would you mind helping me out? You said earlier that sucralose won’t rot your teeth or affect your insulin levels. Is that true of all artificial sweeteners? I have a liking of diet sodas and zero sugar drinks and it is basically my only health vice. I often wonder how bad it actually is for me, and I can’t seem to find an authority on the matter. You would rightly and truly be doing me a solid.
@ThrillFerrence Sugar substitute sweeteners like everything else are best consumed in moderation.
Moderation is a relative term and depends on a host of factors such as your body mass index, frequency and amounts of consumption, length of time used (decades, years, months, etc.) and to some extent your personal body chemistry and genetics.
I know you would like a hard answer such as no more than x grams/day, but it is impossible to give a one size fits all recommendation or limit.
I suppose you could look up the LD50 for each sweetener you consume (LD50 lethal dose for 50% of imbibing population, and is usually based on rats). But that would be such a ridiculous number, that it wouldn’t likely be of much use.
In general too much of anything is… well, too much. One can actually drink too much water! A few folks have found out this out the hard way.
Moderation. (A gateway habit to having Golden Years.)
My petite wife will consume about half to two thirds of a 35 can case of Coke Zero in a month, but I hardly, if ever, touch the stuff. But then she doesn’t over indulge in anything.
OTH, I will use sucralose everywhere I can to cut down on my sugar and calorie intake. My sugar intake isn’t all that high to begin with as I am not a big sweets eater.
Most all the sweeteners in general use are safe.
Think about it.
Millions and millions of people consume these things every day, which in total quantity is a staggering amount, and the products which incorporate these sweeteners are multi-billion dollar businesses. We generally don’t hear about folks keeling over from ill effects associated with sweeteners.
(Before someone calls me out on the fact that large populations consuming large quantities of something doesn’t necessarily make it safe, e.g., tobacco. I hold that sugar substitutes don’t have a sword of Damocles hanging over them as does tobacco.)
As far as health effects, I refer you to section 4 of the Wikipedia article on sugar substitutes, which is a pretty good summary and jumping off point into the technical literature, if you want to follow up on the footnotes.
If you consume a balanced diet, exercise regularly, and maintain a generally healthy lifestyle, then I wouldn’t be concerned if you have a diet drink or two a day. If that is approaching ten diet drinks a day, instead of two, then you might want to think about cutting back a bit. Ask yourself, “Am I really thirsty?”, “Do I really need this?”, or, “Am I just bored.”
@Jackinga It helped wonderfully! Your last paragraph about summed it up. I’m in good shape, work out, run, and eat well. I simply enjoy a zero sugar soda. About 2 to 3 a day depending, but I’ll sometimes go a few weeks without touching one at all. I honestly really love your response and I am especially grateful that you typed up so much on a meh.com comment section for a complete rando.
@djslack MUTUALISH IS NOT A WORD, IF YOU’RE GOING TO CORRECT SOMEONE JUST BE PERFECT YOUR SELF. I IGNORE SOMETHING I DON’T LIKE, YOU CHOOSE TO COMMENT IT’S ALL GOOD HATE AWAY.
@werehatrack My Acai Berry CL Go Juice came yesterday - and it tastes very much like the Vita-man Water of the same flavor. Which was what I was thinking when I ordered.
Not sure why everyone disparages the Acai berry - I like it.
@khiddy Of course it does. That’s how you know it’s good for you without needing the FDA to evaluate any claims. And my astrologist agreed with my phrenologist, so it must be super healthy.
$3.99 a piece at the local grocer, not bad, must be a terrible flavor.
If nothing else it will fill a shelf at the office.
/giphy average-opportune-cattle
@jcroxmisox You might research magnesium supplements and ask your doctor. I used to frequently have restless legs, but almost never since I started taking magnesium glycinate before bed.
Product Name: Crystal Light Liquid Energy Drink Mix
Condition: New
Acai Berry Bliss flavored drink mix
Zero calories
Zero grams of sugar
30 mg of caffeine per serving
Enjoy on the go: compact 1.62 fluid ounce squeeze bottle fits easily in your purse, bag, or car so you can enjoy the great taste of Crystal Light anytime, anywhere
Simple to prepare: squeeze a few drops of the sugar-free liquid drink mix into water, stir, and enjoy!
I was getting migraines that affected my vision. No pain, but disruption of the center of my visual field in an arc and sweeping outward off the edges.
Not painful, just disruptive.
Then, I stopped artificial sweeteners. I didn’t do science to it, I don’t know WHICH sweetener did it, I just use sugar/honey/maple syrup now instead of anything “diet” or zero calories.
Haven’t had a single migraine for a long while now.
Threw all my water flavorings in the trash. No regretti.
@EvilSmoo
Aspartame reliably does this to people who are phenylketonuric. There is a smaller group for whom multiple culprits can do it, but the mechanism had not been verified when I last checked.
@EvilSmoo @werehatrack I happen to fall in a weird category where aspartame won’t bother me. However, stevia damn near every time will trigger a migraine within 24-48 hours. It’s awful since it’s begun to creep into more and more food products. I hope some day the mystery for non sugar sweeteners in general gets solved.
What is this? The 80’s? Crystal Light? My Mom used to mix it with gin and get real rowdy at the tupperware party…
It’s got Sucralose(man-made chemical sweetener) in it instead of real sugar. Buyer beware!
@katsuronishi Yeah, I hate that stuff.
Aka Splenda.
@katsuronishi I believe that’s been a selling point of Crystal Light ever since it was invented, hasn’t it? Man-made chemical alternatives to sugar in order to keep it light?
@djslack @katsuronishi
Powdered CL formulas have aspartame, which is worse for a lot of people. So do some of their squeeze bottles. My principal objection to this particular flavor is that acai is vile. Nasty, awful, ick, yuk, no good very bad throw far away Do Not Want!
@katsuronishi Agree with @djslack. I don’t think Crystal Light has ever had sugar. It’s Kool-Aid’s diet cousin.
@katsuronishi Actually, sucralose is sucrose (table sugar) that has had one hydroxyl group replaced with a chlorine. It won’t rot your teeth or affect your insulin levels.
It is about as “man-made” as 10,000 things you eat or use every day without a whimper.
Virtually every commercial baked good for example has “additives” to stabilize, discourage mold and decay, improve appearance, mouth feel, and on and on and on. Read the label on the side of a loaf of bread, or the side of a box of cake mix, sometime.
For that matter read the label on most any purchased foodstuff, which except for fruits and some vegetables isn’t treated with some man-made item.
Even most meat is injected with water containing flavoring agents, salts, and other materials to improve handling, cooking and taste.
In my view, this is all much ado about nothing. YMMV.
@Jackinga @katsuronishi
Even fruits and vegetables are coated with waxes, irradiated, and before harvesting were likely sprayed with man-made fertilizers, pesticides, and animal feces.
Imagine how things are in places that don’t have an FDA at least trying to keep things that kill us from being sold as food or supplements to eat. Oh, wait, that’s every place except 'Murica.
@djslack @katsuronishi @werehatrack But what if you lost your sense of taste from covid and want a cheap pick me up that won’t kill off your intestinal parasites?
Asking for a friend.
@katsuronishi @mike808 This reply has nothing to do with the product being offered as such. I am still reacting to the implied horror of “man-made chemical.”
This phrase and others like it are causally thrown out by folks who don’t really understand commercial foodstuffs made in factories. Yet, those same folks imbibe “man-made” ingredients virtually everyday without complaint.
One of the more fascinating aspects of this man-made issue is just how many products and/or ingredients are man-made starting from corn. Here is a partial list:
Alpha tocopherol
Ascorbic acid (Vitamin C)
Baking powder
Calcium stearate
Caramel
Cellulose
Citric Acid
Citrus cloud emulsion
Corn flour
Corn oil
Cornstarch
Corn syrup
Dextrin
Dextrose (glucose)
Diglycerides
Ethylene
Ethyl acetate
Ethyl lactate
Fibersol-2
Fructose
Fumaric acid
Gluten
Golden syrup
High fructose corn syrup
Inositol
Invert sugar
Malt
Maltodextrin
Margarine
Monoglycerides
Monosodium glutamate (MSG)
Polydextrose
Saccharin
Semolina
Sorbic Acid
Sorbitol
Starch
Sucrose
Treacle
Vanilla extract
White vinegar
Xanthan gum
Xylitol
Zein
In America, at any rate, it is almost impossible to go through a normal day and not imbibe many, many somethings made from or with “chemicals” made from corn, by “man-made” techniques and processes. From the saccharin in your morning toothpaste to the ethanol in that final night cap, you are awash in man-made chemicals which come from corn.
Just sayin’
@Jackinga @katsuronishi @mike808 Mmm, treacle, my favorite! Closely followed by citrus cloud emulsion. Wait, aren’t those prog rock bands from the 70s?
I might be confused… oops, never mind!
@Jackinga @katsuronishi @mike808 Of all those things, sucralose is the only one I’m aware of that caused respiratory issues for me. It’s a not all that uncommon side effect. I stay far away from it.
@Jackinga A quick glance at your list reveals that you included gluten. Being a celiac, I know a lot about gluten and it is not man made. It’s a natural plant protein found in wheat, barley, and rye.
@cengland0 You are correct, sir! But there is gluten, the product of the reaction of the two proteins, gliadin and glutenin, and there is “corn gluten”, which is not the same thing. As a celiac, you may be sensitive to certain forms of gliadin/glutenin glutens, but probably not corn gluten.
So-called corn gluten is a by-product of corn processing (wet milling) and treatment with sulfur dioxide, from some post treatments of corn mash used in the production of ethanol, or is a fraction isolated from the leftovers in the production of high fructose corn syrups.
Commercially there is somewhere North of 3.5 million tons of “corn gluten” or in the parlance of the trade, just “gluten” produced in the U.S. annually. It used for mostly for animal feed with a minor use as a herbicide. For animal feeds, it is usually pelletized to increase its bulk density and to lower shipping costs.
Corn gluten can be further processed into zein and glutelin.
Zein is a protein with large amounts of proline, an amino acid, and is/was used for everything from paper coatings (paper coffee cups) to manufacture of buttons, to food shellacs (confectioner’s glazes).
There is a huge, mostly hidden, chemical process industry based on corn. The corn processing industry generates an incredible number of products and chemicals. Many of these corn derived products find their way into the manufacture of foods as additives and <gasp> man-made chemicals.
My point in including that list was to illustrate just how many different things are “man-made” from something as simple and innocuous looking as corn kernels. And by way of that example to contrast and compare the relationship between sucrose and sucralose to those myriad products produced from corn (aka maize).
@Jackinga I don’t believe either aspartame or sucralose have much in the way of health risks, outside of some very specific, well-understood reactions. And sugar is almost certainly worse for you.
They both just taste awful to me, at the concentrations used by most food producers. Stevia, too, and that one’s “natural”.
@gdorn @Jackinga This is my reason too - it’s not the “man-made chemical” aspect that bothers me, I just don’t like the taste of the artificial sweeteners.
@Jackinga Hey you seem knowledgeable about this stuff. Would you mind helping me out? You said earlier that sucralose won’t rot your teeth or affect your insulin levels. Is that true of all artificial sweeteners? I have a liking of diet sodas and zero sugar drinks and it is basically my only health vice. I often wonder how bad it actually is for me, and I can’t seem to find an authority on the matter. You would rightly and truly be doing me a solid.
@ThrillFerrence Sugar substitute sweeteners like everything else are best consumed in moderation.
Moderation is a relative term and depends on a host of factors such as your body mass index, frequency and amounts of consumption, length of time used (decades, years, months, etc.) and to some extent your personal body chemistry and genetics.
I know you would like a hard answer such as no more than x grams/day, but it is impossible to give a one size fits all recommendation or limit.
I suppose you could look up the LD50 for each sweetener you consume (LD50 lethal dose for 50% of imbibing population, and is usually based on rats). But that would be such a ridiculous number, that it wouldn’t likely be of much use.
In general too much of anything is… well, too much. One can actually drink too much water! A few folks have found out this out the hard way.
Moderation. (A gateway habit to having Golden Years.)
My petite wife will consume about half to two thirds of a 35 can case of Coke Zero in a month, but I hardly, if ever, touch the stuff. But then she doesn’t over indulge in anything.
OTH, I will use sucralose everywhere I can to cut down on my sugar and calorie intake. My sugar intake isn’t all that high to begin with as I am not a big sweets eater.
Most all the sweeteners in general use are safe.
Think about it.
Millions and millions of people consume these things every day, which in total quantity is a staggering amount, and the products which incorporate these sweeteners are multi-billion dollar businesses. We generally don’t hear about folks keeling over from ill effects associated with sweeteners.
(Before someone calls me out on the fact that large populations consuming large quantities of something doesn’t necessarily make it safe, e.g., tobacco. I hold that sugar substitutes don’t have a sword of Damocles hanging over them as does tobacco.)
As far as health effects, I refer you to section 4 of the Wikipedia article on sugar substitutes, which is a pretty good summary and jumping off point into the technical literature, if you want to follow up on the footnotes.
If you consume a balanced diet, exercise regularly, and maintain a generally healthy lifestyle, then I wouldn’t be concerned if you have a diet drink or two a day. If that is approaching ten diet drinks a day, instead of two, then you might want to think about cutting back a bit. Ask yourself, “Am I really thirsty?”, “Do I really need this?”, or, “Am I just bored.”
Hope this helps.
@Jackinga It helped wonderfully! Your last paragraph about summed it up. I’m in good shape, work out, run, and eat well. I simply enjoy a zero sugar soda. About 2 to 3 a day depending, but I’ll sometimes go a few weeks without touching one at all. I honestly really love your response and I am especially grateful that you typed up so much on a meh.com comment section for a complete rando.
Acai is French for Ca-Ca.
I enjoyed this entire thread. It was amusing and informative throughout; but ‘Acai is French for Ca-Ca’ made me laugh out loud and startle my dog.
WISH THIS CAME IN A VARIETY PACK, TOO MUCH OF ONE FLAVOR SO A PASS THIS EVENING, TY ANYWAY TEAM MEH.
@mellowirishgent This wishes your letter cases came in a variety pack as well. So it’s mutualish.
@djslack OK THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP.
@djslack MUTUALISH IS NOT A WORD, IF YOU’RE GOING TO CORRECT SOMEONE JUST BE PERFECT YOUR SELF. I IGNORE SOMETHING I DON’T LIKE, YOU CHOOSE TO COMMENT IT’S ALL GOOD HATE AWAY.
@mellowirishgent OK. Thanks for the heads up!
@djslack * “YOURSELF”
/giphy OKAY
welp I would buy this if it wasn’t caffeinated
@violue I purchased “1”, but I would not had it not been caffeinated.
After considering all the science noted above, and the Acai bashing done by so many - IN !!!
Caffeine is what did it for me.
Also took a chance on the Unicorn Rainbow BANG - and LOVE IT !!!
Just a Meh-whore from the start I guess.
@YETB
The Bang isn’t bad, flavor-wise. Be sure to come back and tell us how good this stuff tastes after you’ve had some.
@werehatrack My Acai Berry CL Go Juice came yesterday - and it tastes very much like the Vita-man Water of the same flavor. Which was what I was thinking when I ordered.
Not sure why everyone disparages the Acai berry - I like it.
I know what acai tastes like. RUN AWAY!
@werehatrack But do you know what bliss tastes like?
@awk
Yes. And this ain’t it.
There are too many other caffeinated drinks that have real flavors. Yep, this is a perfect product for Meh.
/giphy grilled-cute-meeting
Açai, as others have already pointed out, tastes TERRIBLE.
@khiddy Of course it does. That’s how you know it’s good for you without needing the FDA to evaluate any claims. And my astrologist agreed with my phrenologist, so it must be super healthy.
Will this energize my iphone?
@yakkoTDI
You need the Fuji Apple Lightning flavor for an iPhone.
/giphy acai
$3.99 a piece at the local grocer, not bad, must be a terrible flavor.
If nothing else it will fill a shelf at the office.
/giphy average-opportune-cattle
@dasred
A dozen of these in an office break room is probably enough to last through ten batches of interns.
I prefer Thic Crystal, but I guess adding caffeine makes you lose weight. Crystal light looks a lot better than crystal Meth so I shouldn’t complain.
That’s a better place to snorkel than where you did last time, Irk.
So far I’m the only commenter to reject due to food dyes… they activate my restless legs, #nothanks
@jcroxmisox You might research magnesium supplements and ask your doctor. I used to frequently have restless legs, but almost never since I started taking magnesium glycinate before bed.
@sdb I take magnesium citrate daily and it certainly helps, but food dyes can bring it back anyways
Specs
Nutrition Facts
Ingredients
What’s Included?
Price Comparison
$71.64 at Amazon
Warranty
90 days
Estimated Delivery
Wednesday, Feb 23 - Monday, Feb 28
Big points to the writer for the 24 Hour Party People allusion.
I was tempted, but too much of one flavour if I don’t happen to like it…
(Meh web site is so slow this AM, what’s it running on, an old Commodore 64?)
@KENSAI that’s an old Commodore 64 in the cloud, thank you very much
@djslack @KENSAI
A distributed virtual Commodore 64 running in the cloud, to be even more precise.
@djslack @KENSAI @werehatrack
NEW AND IMPROVED!!!
NOW WITH MICROSERVICES!
(best when read aloud in a thick mellowirishgent accent)
Not really aMEHzing enough to attract my attention, though these comments were fun!
Not $72 at Amazon. $40.
https://smile.amazon.com/Crystal-Liquid-Energy-Caffeine-Bottle/dp/B09M5GTS68/
Look at me I’m on a roll first the Portable power plant now this. Wow
Apologies, but an order number like that demands a sacrifice to Tradition!
/giphy minimum-narcissistic-observation
Meh. Can we do knives again? Ken Onions turd is still in service.